Who's Fault is it?

**Mke** · July 12th, 2009, 07:41 PM

Spent most of my time friday, on site of a damage.

Here is my issue.

Because it was damaged I feel like its my responsibility. Some how, I was not able to protect this line, and I take that personal.

With that being said here is the situation:

City owned 18'' Transite Force Main. (Asbestos concrete) Runs through the work area. The City Marked it as best they could ( Transite does not Locate). The Construction Crew was advised of the Pipe before digging, was told on multiple occasions that it is an unlocateable pipe. They Procceeded to Poke a hole in the Force Main. The Construction Company is insisting that its the Cities responsibility because the main was Marked appx 10 from where they found it. The construction company also states that we are to blame because our project books show the main further south then it actually is. (Design Issue). Here is the funny part. This same construction company "pot-holed" this very force main for the design of this project. Some how, this information is lost to the interworkings of two seperate companies.

So..... Who should pay the bill?

If you need more info, please ask questions.

mke

**TheCableVine** · July 12th, 2009, 08:31 PM

Sounds like the crew had the responsibility of finding it independently of the city. A private locator with a GPR could have found it that afternoon. I don't think it is your fault based on your description.

**Locateforlife** · July 12th, 2009, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by Mke

Spent most of my time friday, on site of a damage.

Here is my issue.

Because it was damaged I feel like its my responsibility. Some how, I was not able to protect this line, and I take that personal.

With that being said here is the situation:

City owned 18'' Transite Force Main. (Asbestos concrete) Runs through the work area. The City Marked it as best they could ( Transite does not Locate). The Construction Crew was advised of the Pipe before digging, was told on multiple occasions that it is an unlocateable pipe. They Procceeded to Poke a hole in the Force Main. The Construction Company is insisting that its the Cities responsibility because the main was Marked appx 10 from where they found it. The construction company also states that we are to blame because our project books show the main further south then it actually is. (Design Issue). Here is the funny part. This same construction company "pot-holed" this very force main for the design of this project. Some how, this information is lost to the interworkings of two seperate companies.

So..... Who should pay the bill?

If you need more info, please ask questions.

mke

A couple of questions;
1: Do you mark the facility?
2: What is a project book?

If you are not responsible for the marking of the facility then you are not responsible.
If you are responsible for the marking of the facility and you made every effort possible, notified the contractor of the unlocatable facility, notified the utility owner you have done all that can be expected. The day that they put a GPR in all areas or when you develop the ability to xray the ground with your eyes then you can beat yourself up about it.

**Mke** · July 12th, 2009, 09:53 PM

Steve, The T.O.P. was down about 7ft.... the last time we had GPR out there, due to the soil conditions they only go down appx 3-4ft... water table is at 4.

Locatorforlife,

A "project Book" is a set of engineered prints that tell the construction company what to put in the ground and where to put it. In other words its the instruction manual for the Pipe they were installing.

No, I'm not responsible for Marking the Pipe, but it is on My companies property and that line is the main line that facilitates our property.

Its a pride thing I guess.

**AULupstate** · July 12th, 2009, 10:11 PM

I would think that if someone put paint on the ground saying 'yep that's it right there' then whoever put the paint down would have to assume the responsibility.
If you don't know and can't find out by performing all the due diligence that is required then NO marks should have been put down by ANYONE.
I guess whoever did that then it is their problem.

**Aquaman** · July 13th, 2009, 09:35 AM

the person that put the paint down is responsible

**yahoo** · July 13th, 2009, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by AULupstate

I would think that if someone put paint on the ground saying 'yep that's it right there' then whoever put the paint down would have to assume the responsibility.
If you don't know and can't find out by performing all the due diligence that is required then NO marks should have been put down by ANYONE.
I guess whoever did that then it is their problem.

i agree with AUL 100% nothing to be said more!!!!

**Red Dawg** · July 14th, 2009, 05:02 AM

A meet sheet for everytime you went out there. I your did not merk the line then the contractor is responsible.

Project book-is a set of construction drawings with all known facilities on it. if that force main was on it then it fall back to the contractor for not using due diligence to locate it---even at 7'.

**scap** · July 15th, 2009, 07:45 PM

I'd say,

if the utility was on the ticket the tech closed and the line got smoked, he doesn't have pictures or whatever, ya, at fault

if the ticket doesn't have the utility, hell no.

in any case, at least it was a shitpipe and not a meaty fiber...

**ifinditunderground** · July 15th, 2009, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by scap

I'd say,

if the utility was on the ticket the tech closed and the line got smoked, he doesn't have pictures or whatever, ya, at fault

if the ticket doesn't have the utility, hell no.

in any case, at least it was a shitpipe and not a meaty fiber...

Oh my no Scap, an 18" Transite Force Main is gonna be really expensive, not to mention the environmental impacts that fibers don't have.

If it is Transite, is so old, just the repair is gonna be nasty.

18" diameter pipe pumped full of sewage, that is just plain bad......

**AULupstate** · July 16th, 2009, 05:17 AM

Ha! A Shit Geiser! You could call it 'Old Smelly'!

**Mke** · July 16th, 2009, 09:57 AM

Ifindit...

Not to mention that we had to shut down 3 pumpstations in order to stop the flow of crap into the ditch. Shutting down one Pumpstation is hard enough, but to do all three is a pain the the a$$. They had to haul in 6 10,000 gal frak tanks inorder to pump sewage from the 3 pumpstations so they wouldn't over flow.

ahhh, what a great friday it was. sure glad it was only in the low 90's with no breeze.

**ifinditunderground** · July 16th, 2009, 05:45 PM

My point exactly....Bad, very bad.

**yahoo** · July 16th, 2009, 10:10 PM

yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**locatedude** · July 17th, 2009, 08:11 PM

Mke, I believe the contractor is at fault for this damage. When it comes to unlocatable infrastructure knowing it is there is half the battle. The project book indicated the transite 18" SSFM and the contractor was aware it was in the general area regardless of the paint that was laid by the City. It sounds like there was no caution taken during construction by the contractor to find this critical line. Not to mention they did pothole the force main during design and gathered the data on the location and T.O.P. It sounds like the information was not surveyed and recorded due to it never made it into the project book. It looks like they may have a internal problem, lack of communication from within. If they didn't share the data they had on the force main with the crew that was out there doing the project, they are now paying the ultimate price.