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Thread: Who's Fault is it?

  1. #1
    Mke
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    Default Who's Fault is it?

    Spent most of my time friday, on site of a damage.

    Here is my issue.

    Because it was damaged I feel like its my responsibility. Some how, I was not able to protect this line, and I take that personal.

    With that being said here is the situation:

    City owned 18'' Transite Force Main. (Asbestos concrete) Runs through the work area. The City Marked it as best they could ( Transite does not Locate). The Construction Crew was advised of the Pipe before digging, was told on multiple occasions that it is an unlocateable pipe. They Procceeded to Poke a hole in the Force Main. The Construction Company is insisting that its the Cities responsibility because the main was Marked appx 10 from where they found it. The construction company also states that we are to blame because our project books show the main further south then it actually is. (Design Issue). Here is the funny part. This same construction company "pot-holed" this very force main for the design of this project. Some how, this information is lost to the interworkings of two seperate companies.


    So..... Who should pay the bill?

    If you need more info, please ask questions.

    mke

  2. #2
    Administrator TheCableVine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's Fault is it?

    Sounds like the crew had the responsibility of finding it independently of the city. A private locator with a GPR could have found it that afternoon. I don't think it is your fault based on your description.

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    Member Locateforlife's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's Fault is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mke View Post
    Spent most of my time friday, on site of a damage.

    Here is my issue.

    Because it was damaged I feel like its my responsibility. Some how, I was not able to protect this line, and I take that personal.

    With that being said here is the situation:

    City owned 18'' Transite Force Main. (Asbestos concrete) Runs through the work area. The City Marked it as best they could ( Transite does not Locate). The Construction Crew was advised of the Pipe before digging, was told on multiple occasions that it is an unlocateable pipe. They Procceeded to Poke a hole in the Force Main. The Construction Company is insisting that its the Cities responsibility because the main was Marked appx 10 from where they found it. The construction company also states that we are to blame because our project books show the main further south then it actually is. (Design Issue). Here is the funny part. This same construction company "pot-holed" this very force main for the design of this project. Some how, this information is lost to the interworkings of two seperate companies.


    So..... Who should pay the bill?

    If you need more info, please ask questions.

    mke
    A couple of questions;
    1: Do you mark the facility?
    2: What is a project book?

    If you are not responsible for the marking of the facility then you are not responsible.
    If you are responsible for the marking of the facility and you made every effort possible, notified the contractor of the unlocatable facility, notified the utility owner you have done all that can be expected. The day that they put a GPR in all areas or when you develop the ability to xray the ground with your eyes then you can beat yourself up about it.
    GOD BLESS THE USA & the Damage Prevention Techs that are the heartbeat of the Utility industry.[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT]
    OPINIONS ARE LIKE A-HOLES EVERYONE HAS ONE.

  4. #4
    Mke
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    Default Re: Who's Fault is it?

    Steve, The T.O.P. was down about 7ft.... the last time we had GPR out there, due to the soil conditions they only go down appx 3-4ft... water table is at 4.

    Locatorforlife,

    A "project Book" is a set of engineered prints that tell the construction company what to put in the ground and where to put it. In other words its the instruction manual for the Pipe they were installing.

    No, I'm not responsible for Marking the Pipe, but it is on My companies property and that line is the main line that facilitates our property.

    Its a pride thing I guess.

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    Senior Member AULupstate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's Fault is it?

    I would think that if someone put paint on the ground saying 'yep that's it right there' then whoever put the paint down would have to assume the responsibility.
    If you don't know and can't find out by performing all the due diligence that is required then NO marks should have been put down by ANYONE.
    I guess whoever did that then it is their problem.

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    Junior Member Aquaman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's Fault is it?

    the person that put the paint down is responsible

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    Senior Member yahoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's Fault is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by AULupstate View Post
    I would think that if someone put paint on the ground saying 'yep that's it right there' then whoever put the paint down would have to assume the responsibility.
    If you don't know and can't find out by performing all the due diligence that is required then NO marks should have been put down by ANYONE.
    I guess whoever did that then it is their problem.
    i agree with AUL 100% nothing to be said more!!!!
    wise men talk because they have something to say and fools because they have to say something....plato

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    Member Red Dawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's Fault is it?

    A meet sheet for everytime you went out there. I your did not merk the line then the contractor is responsible.

    Project book-is a set of construction drawings with all known facilities on it. if that force main was on it then it fall back to the contractor for not using due diligence to locate it---even at 7'.

  9. #9
    Senior Member scap's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's Fault is it?

    I'd say,

    if the utility was on the ticket the tech closed and the line got smoked, he doesn't have pictures or whatever, ya, at fault

    if the ticket doesn't have the utility, hell no.

    in any case, at least it was a shitpipe and not a meaty fiber...
    "The truth is rarely pure and never simple"-Oscar Wilde

  10. #10
    Conservative Meanie ifinditunderground's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's Fault is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by scap View Post
    I'd say,

    if the utility was on the ticket the tech closed and the line got smoked, he doesn't have pictures or whatever, ya, at fault

    if the ticket doesn't have the utility, hell no.

    in any case, at least it was a shitpipe and not a meaty fiber...
    Oh my no Scap, an 18" Transite Force Main is gonna be really expensive, not to mention the environmental impacts that fibers don't have.

    If it is Transite, is so old, just the repair is gonna be nasty.

    18" diameter pipe pumped full of sewage, that is just plain bad......
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Mental Illness."
    "America isn't free, in America you are free to follow the rules." -Anthony Cumia


  11. #11
    Senior Member AULupstate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's Fault is it?

    Ha! A Shit Geiser! You could call it 'Old Smelly'!

  12. #12
    Mke
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    Default Re: Who's Fault is it?

    Ifindit...

    Not to mention that we had to shut down 3 pumpstations in order to stop the flow of crap into the ditch. Shutting down one Pumpstation is hard enough, but to do all three is a pain the the a$$. They had to haul in 6 10,000 gal frak tanks inorder to pump sewage from the 3 pumpstations so they wouldn't over flow.

    ahhh, what a great friday it was. sure glad it was only in the low 90's with no breeze.

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    Conservative Meanie ifinditunderground's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's Fault is it?

    My point exactly....Bad, very bad.
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Mental Illness."
    "America isn't free, in America you are free to follow the rules." -Anthony Cumia


  14. #14
    Senior Member yahoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's Fault is it?

    yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    wise men talk because they have something to say and fools because they have to say something....plato

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    Junior Member locatedude's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's Fault is it?

    Mke, I believe the contractor is at fault for this damage. When it comes to unlocatable infrastructure knowing it is there is half the battle. The project book indicated the transite 18" SSFM and the contractor was aware it was in the general area regardless of the paint that was laid by the City. It sounds like there was no caution taken during construction by the contractor to find this critical line. Not to mention they did pothole the force main during design and gathered the data on the location and T.O.P. It sounds like the information was not surveyed and recorded due to it never made it into the project book. It looks like they may have a internal problem, lack of communication from within. If they didn't share the data they had on the force main with the crew that was out there doing the project, they are now paying the ultimate price.

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