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Thread: school me on "hot pairing"

  1. #16
    Banned advanceMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: school me on "hot pairing"

    Oh ya, you can try your clamp too, usually not my first choice but can work

  2. #17
    Senior Member underground quester's Avatar
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    Default Re: school me on "hot pairing"

    Quote Originally Posted by advanceMan View Post
    Oh ya, you can try your clamp too, usually not my first choice but can work
    ThanX Advance.

    Yes, I have used the clamp a few times.

    Was just trying to visualize if I had to connect to a pair at the BIX, how I would choose a pair to connect to. The reality I guess in the end is it would not matter as long as they all go back to the same ped.
    If not, then its seek and destroy...errr.. I mean seek and find.



    Thanks also RD for your reply.
    Success is a journey, not a destination...

  3. #18
    Banned advanceMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: school me on "hot pairing"

    one more thing on this thread, the mistake you made initially Phoenix, clipping to both pairs and saying "d'uh", sounds like the kind of mistake you might make if you were..........HIGH!

  4. #19
    Senior Member phoenix827's Avatar
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    Default Re: school me on "hot pairing"

    Quote Originally Posted by RD_Wrangler View Post
    If the pairs were twisted together when he opened the ped, I'm doubting seriously it was an active circuit.
    Correct, just sticking out of the cable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wingfoot View Post

    Hmmmmmmmmmmm.... Let's see..........

    1.) Not on my AT&T print. nope, it WAS on the print

    2.) No visible enclosure, handhole or manhole access close to scope of ticket.

    3.) No bonding strap.

    4.) Uncharacteristic sheathless 100 pair cable. nope, had a sheath, just couldn't get to it. could JUST see te edge of it where it came into the panel, no slack to move it so I could hook it.

    5.) Unfamiliar (weird looking) enclosure or terminal panel lay-out. unfamiliar, yes, weird, no

    6.) Cable & panel/enclosure have the appearance of not being "brand new."

    7.) No signal to trace after logical "hot pair" hook-up. that was part of my question, will explain more below

    All this information lumped together is giving me the impression I've got a "private" cable and not my responsibility to locate. If I was blessed with this emergency call-out, I would not have walked away from this locate without first investigating the possibility of this 100 pair sized cable being a private line.NICE idea!!! but it was "supposed to be" att

    ----------------------------------------------


    Quote Originally Posted by underground quester View Post
    Okay:

    Need to have some questions answered in plain english please.

    1) My understanding of "hotpairing was connecting to a "live" pair. But it SOUNDS like phoenix you attached to a dead pair. Is either case considered hot pairing (connecting to an "in use" or unused pair).see below

    2) Were there metal conduit pipes encasing the cables to protect them? If so, the signal is indeed going to ground via the metal conduit.?
    Nope, that's part of why I don't understand how it worked. there was NO ground connected to the panel that I could find, was mounted on a brick wall.
    I don't understand how this worked? If I hooked to both sides of a pair, then I see how that might get me a garbage signal, as the signal is going both ways on the pair I am hooked to. I don't see how hooking to a unused 1/2 of a pair with one lead, and an ungrounded panel made a circuit?

    Or am I just over thinking something that happened to work?

    SO what IS hot pairing? hooking a live pair or an unused pair?

    My head hurts now, going to bed! lol

  5. #20
    Banned advanceMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: school me on "hot pairing"

    If there were pairs sticking from that panel, it must have terminated there. whatever it was terminated to must have been grounded to the panel or something else via the panel in which case it was still grounding the cable.

  6. #21
    Senior Member underground quester's Avatar
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    Default Re: school me on "hot pairing"

    Quote Originally Posted by advanceMan View Post
    If there were pairs sticking from that panel, it must have terminated there. whatever it was terminated to must have been grounded to the panel or something else via the panel in which case it was still grounding the cable.
    I guess that is what I am trying to visualize as well. Somewhere, it sounds like we are getting a complete circuit for it to work.
    Success is a journey, not a destination...

  7. #22
    Senior Member underground quester's Avatar
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    Default Re: school me on "hot pairing"

    Last week went into my very first utility room in a large government works department yard.

    I was fortunate in that I was able to clearly see the large grren grounds and unbonded all of them, then clipped to one at a time to trace out the lines.

    The issue was where to ground. I eventually decided to ground on the gas line at the hot water tank.

    Had I had to "hot pair" would not have had a clue which one to clip to...
    Success is a journey, not a destination...

  8. #23
    Banned advanceMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: school me on "hot pairing"

    UGQ, why are you locating out of utility rooms? Don't ground to the gas line unless you absolutely need to. Independant is always best. Disconnect all your grounds, locate one at a time. if you decide to ground within the apparatus, this is especially prudent.

  9. #24
    Banned advanceMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: school me on "hot pairing"

    hot pair is just someone's terminology. Too many locators bandy words and phrases about they don't underdstand.(I hear some guys say "rig station" for "regulating station") From everything you already know, theoretically, it makes no difference whether the pair is "hot" or "cold".

  10. #25
    Senior Member Dave72's Avatar
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    Default Re: school me on "hot pairing"

    My guess is that that particular tip wire was faulted to ground somewhere on the far side of your locate. Someone pulled it off the strip and twisted it back to signify "pair screwed, dont use" (its common around here anyhow). The terminal box inside was probably grounded to the sheath.. but nothing was grounded to the building ground inside.
    Your signal path was tip wire out to the fault, then back thru ground and sheath to the other end of that 100pair.. then just sheath into the building.
    Did you use 32k or 64k ? Id think 8k might be a little tough to jump thru the sheath for the locate there (maybe depends on the transmitter power) ?
    (May you live in interesting times)

  11. #26
    Senior Member underground quester's Avatar
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    Default Re: school me on "hot pairing"

    Quote Originally Posted by advanceMan View Post
    UGQ, why are you locating out of utility rooms? Don't ground to the gas line unless you absolutely need to. Independant is always best. Disconnect all your grounds, locate one at a time. if you decide to ground within the apparatus, this is especially prudent.
    ThanX Advance.

    There were no tel peds near the locate site and I was in a huge public works site with fences and card readers every frikin place.

    I did hook up and trace out the gas first, once done,
    I disconnected all the telephone grounds and hooked to each independently, pinpointing, tracing and locating each line.

    What a freeking pain in the a$$ having to work your way around fences with locked gates, card readers and 100's of parked cars.
    Success is a journey, not a destination...

  12. #27
    Senior Member Enjoythefall's Avatar
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    Default Re: school me on "hot pairing"

    DISCLAIMER: Always and I mean Always Open a pedistal you're not familiar with. No DCing to the exterior of a Pedistal unless you're intimately familiar with an area's layout (Damages, anyone?) . You need to know physically what's in there.

    Ignoring a drop or cable won't make it go away, and you'll just screw your day all up a week down the line, or worse, damage out.

    Only use any "tricks" in conjunction with sweeps and comon sense.



    You have to genuinely understand the layout and purpose of the plant you're working with before you do this. You need to know where the pair you're hooking to goes, and what other pairs it is likely to be near in a cable.
    This is virtually the same as spare pairing, and is useful if there's a break in the sheath or an unshielded splice in the area.

    This technique works without much bleedover onto neighboring utilities. By hooking to an active pair, you are guaranteeing a circuit that isn't grounded until it hits the c.o. You are also creating a controlled bleedover effect in which neighboring pairs, and ultimately the shielding, "soak" up the signal through induction.

    If you get it right, you'll know it. Successfully hot pairing lights a phone line up better than DCing to a shallow cable drop. You'll know it is a single 22g wire you're tracing by your machine's feedback. It's like a pinprick.


    Having said that, Hot pairing as I know it is seriously the most accurate way to mark a telephone cable:

    1. Get your ground rod as far from the ped as possible. Hell, get it away from any utility in the area, marked or not.

    2. Connect to one side of an active pair, preferably not by stripping any wires. There are screw heads that'll work inside most NIDs. The more access points, the better.

    3. Play around with it until you feel comfortable. 200khz to light up a whole block you've located 4 times, 8.19 if you're accessing each cable individually on a first run. Be careful. I'd imaging if you get use <20khz, whoever's on a connected line might be able to hear it.If you bridge pairs with your clip, you could be creating an unwanted party line.

    4. ????????????????????????

    5. Be confident of your marks in congested areas.
    Last edited by Enjoythefall; August 2nd, 2013 at 10:36 PM. Reason: +++

  13. #28
    Premium Member daman1's Avatar
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    Default Re: school me on "hot pairing"

    Just be mindful when you hot pair that you may interrupt service to that pair. Even if you connect to the terminal nuts and don't disconnect the line. I didn't realize until I was approached at a drop I was hooked up to at a lawyer's office. The owner said he got a loud noise in his connection and had to hang up and couldn't dial out again on that line. When he saw me at the ped he came out to see why I was there. As soon as I turned my transmitter off his line returned to normal. Good thing it wasn't an emergency 911 call, eh? It does work great but I'm a little more careful when hot pairing nowadays.
    superman likes this.

  14. #29
    Senior Member superman's Avatar
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    Default Re: school me on "hot pairing"

    Quote Originally Posted by daman1 View Post
    Just be mindful when you hot pair that you may interrupt service to that pair. Even if you connect to the terminal nuts and don't disconnect the line. I didn't realize until I was approached at a drop I was hooked up to at a lawyer's office. The owner said he got a loud noise in his connection and had to hang up and couldn't dial out again on that line. When he saw me at the ped he came out to see why I was there. As soon as I turned my transmitter off his line returned to normal. Good thing it wasn't an emergency 911 call, eh? It does work great but I'm a little more careful when hot pairing nowadays.
    I had a homeowner come out one time and tell me his phone was continuosly ringing, even when he was trying to answer it. Ha-haa-ha!!!!! Whoops!
    yahoo likes this.

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