school me on "hot pairing"

[advanceMan]

Oh ya, you can try your clamp too, usually not my first choice but can work

[underground quester]

Oh ya, you can try your clamp too, usually not my first choice but can work

ThanX Advance.

Yes, I have used the clamp a few times.

Was just trying to visualize if I had to connect to a pair at the BIX, how I would choose a pair to connect to. The reality I guess in the end is it would not matter as long as they all go back to the same ped.
If not, then its seek and destroy...errr.. I mean seek and find.



Thanks also RD for your reply.

[advanceMan]

one more thing on this thread, the mistake you made initially Phoenix, clipping to both pairs and saying "d'uh", sounds like the kind of mistake you might make if you were..........HIGH!

[phoenix827]

If the pairs were twisted together when he opened the ped, I'm doubting seriously it was an active circuit.

Correct, just sticking out of the cable.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.... Let's see..........

1.) Not on my AT&T print. nope, it WAS on the print

2.) No visible enclosure, handhole or manhole access close to scope of ticket.

3.) No bonding strap.

4.) Uncharacteristic sheathless 100 pair cable. nope, had a sheath, just couldn't get to it. could JUST see te edge of it where it came into the panel, no slack to move it so I could hook it.

5.) Unfamiliar (weird looking) enclosure or terminal panel lay-out. unfamiliar, yes, weird, no

6.) Cable & panel/enclosure have the appearance of not being "brand new."

7.) No signal to trace after logical "hot pair" hook-up. that was part of my question, will explain more below

All this information lumped together is giving me the impression I've got a "private" cable and not my responsibility to locate. If I was blessed with this emergency call-out, I would not have walked away from this locate without first investigating the possibility of this 100 pair sized cable being a private line.NICE idea!!! but it was "supposed to be" att

----------------------------------------------

Okay:

Need to have some questions answered in plain english please.

1) My understanding of "hotpairing was connecting to a "live" pair. But it SOUNDS like phoenix you attached to a dead pair. Is either case considered hot pairing (connecting to an "in use" or unused pair).see below

2) Were there metal conduit pipes encasing the cables to protect them? If so, the signal is indeed going to ground via the metal conduit.?

Nope, that's part of why I don't understand how it worked. there was NO ground connected to the panel that I could find, was mounted on a brick wall.
I don't understand how this worked? If I hooked to both sides of a pair, then I see how that might get me a garbage signal, as the signal is going both ways on the pair I am hooked to. I don't see how hooking to a unused 1/2 of a pair with one lead, and an ungrounded panel made a circuit?

Or am I just over thinking something that happened to work?

SO what IS hot pairing? hooking a live pair or an unused pair?

My head hurts now, going to bed! lol

[advanceMan]

If there were pairs sticking from that panel, it must have terminated there. whatever it was terminated to must have been grounded to the panel or something else via the panel in which case it was still grounding the cable.

[underground quester]

If there were pairs sticking from that panel, it must have terminated there. whatever it was terminated to must have been grounded to the panel or something else via the panel in which case it was still grounding the cable.

I guess that is what I am trying to visualize as well. Somewhere, it sounds like we are getting a complete circuit for it to work.

[underground quester]

Last week went into my very first utility room in a large government works department yard.

I was fortunate in that I was able to clearly see the large grren grounds and unbonded all of them, then clipped to one at a time to trace out the lines.

The issue was where to ground. I eventually decided to ground on the gas line at the hot water tank.

Had I had to "hot pair" would not have had a clue which one to clip to...

[advanceMan]

UGQ, why are you locating out of utility rooms? Don't ground to the gas line unless you absolutely need to. Independant is always best. Disconnect all your grounds, locate one at a time. if you decide to ground within the apparatus, this is especially prudent.

[advanceMan]

hot pair is just someone's terminology. Too many locators bandy words and phrases about they don't underdstand.(I hear some guys say "rig station" for "regulating station") From everything you already know, theoretically, it makes no difference whether the pair is "hot" or "cold".

[Dave72]

My guess is that that particular tip wire was faulted to ground somewhere on the far side of your locate. Someone pulled it off the strip and twisted it back to signify "pair screwed, dont use" (its common around here anyhow). The terminal box inside was probably grounded to the sheath.. but nothing was grounded to the building ground inside.
Your signal path was tip wire out to the fault, then back thru ground and sheath to the other end of that 100pair.. then just sheath into the building.
Did you use 32k or 64k ? Id think 8k might be a little tough to jump thru the sheath for the locate there (maybe depends on the transmitter power) ?

[underground quester]

UGQ, why are you locating out of utility rooms? Don't ground to the gas line unless you absolutely need to. Independant is always best. Disconnect all your grounds, locate one at a time. if you decide to ground within the apparatus, this is especially prudent.

ThanX Advance.

There were no tel peds near the locate site and I was in a huge public works site with fences and card readers every frikin place.

I did hook up and trace out the gas first, once done,
I disconnected all the telephone grounds and hooked to each independently, pinpointing, tracing and locating each line.

What a freeking pain in the a$$ having to work your way around fences with locked gates, card readers and 100's of parked cars.