school me on "hot pairing"

**phoenix827** · April 30th, 2009, 08:10 PM

OK, Can someone explain this 2 me? I had a phone line (100 pair) to a building that I had a 911 call @ today. I got no tone with a clamp, was not grounded @ the panel/no exposed sheath to D/C to, no idea where it went as all the h/h's shown on the print in the area were either missing or (more likely) buried. I treid hooking to a unused pair that was twisted together, and got the same thing, no tone beyond about 5', dropped the ground off the green and hooked it to the panel with the hot lead on the white wire and it lit up like a x/mas tree. Did I get this right? Where did the signal go? I am thinking out the white wire I was hooked to and came back thru the ground and somehow to the panel I was grounded on?

**yahoo** · April 30th, 2009, 10:49 PM

some other pairs in the ped were already bare and touching ground somewhere in that ped is my guess...........

**TBONE** · April 30th, 2009, 10:53 PM

Time to break out the cheater clip

**Goldenboy** · April 30th, 2009, 11:33 PM

I'm confused. When you tried it first did you have one lead to each of the spare pairs or did you have one lead to a spare wire and your other lead grounded as usual?

**Goldenboy** · April 30th, 2009, 11:41 PM

I've also found that a real small screw driver works great if you don't have a "cheater clip". Just slide the screwdriver inbetween the jacket and sheath of the cable and hook up to the screwdriver. This is if there is no bonding crap attatched to the old 60's cables.

**phoenix827** · May 1st, 2009, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by yahoo

some other pairs in the ped were already bare and touching ground somewhere in that ped is my guess...........

That makes sense, but the case I clipped my ground lead to wasn't grounded to anything I could see. All I know is I got a GREAT signal.

Originally Posted by TBONE

Time to break out the cheater clip

100 pair cable, mine won't fit.

Originally Posted by Goldenboy

I'm confused. When you tried it first did you have one lead to each of the spare pairs or did you have one lead to a spare wire and your other lead grounded as usual?

Had a white and a green that came out of the bundle and were twisted together. I hooked my hot lead to the white, and my ground to the green. Got about 5' away and had nothing. THEN I said DUH! and realized the signel going out and back on the same cable wasn't gonna work

so I clipped my ground lead to the panel case

**yahoo** · May 1st, 2009, 10:49 PM

ohhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! no hook to the green or white and ground to the side of the ped or to your ground as normal whatever you decide.....get off as fast as you can though because of noise added to the pair....you won't know for sure 100% that the pair you hook to is hot or not!!!!! but it will send a signal for you to trace out......use caution

**RD_Wrangler** · May 1st, 2009, 11:22 PM

If the pairs were twisted together when he opened the ped, I'm doubting seriously it was an active circuit. I know ATT actually reserves certain green pairs for signal checks and CO pings...at least the line techs did around here, and have had them personally tell me to use them in trouble locates...I'm betting that was what you were DC'ing to.

**Wingfoot** · May 2nd, 2009, 04:40 AM

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.... Let's see..........

1.) Not on my AT&T print.

2.) No visible enclosure, handhole or manhole access close to scope of ticket.

3.) No bonding strap.

4.) Uncharacteristic sheathless 100 pair cable.

5.) Unfamiliar (weird looking) enclosure or terminal panel lay-out.

6.) Cable & panel/enclosure have the appearance of not being "brand new."

7.) No signal to trace after logical "hot pair" hook-up.

All this information lumped together is giving me the impression I've got a "private" cable and not my responsibility to locate. If I was blessed with this emergency call-out, I would not have walked away from this locate without first investigating the possibility of this 100 pair sized cable being a private line.

----------------------------------------------

**advanceMan** · May 4th, 2009, 03:16 PM

If you were grounded to the panel the other wires in the hundred pair were hooked to, that's how you located it. The pair you hooked to may have been dead and acting as a ground. We all know they don't need to be perfect.

**advanceMan** · May 4th, 2009, 04:17 PM

Incidently, that's locate 101 theory. Unhook your grounds or you light everything up. Phoenix didn't have a ground(on the cable) so he connected to the pairs. Then grounded to a panel the the cable was spliced into. Just like hooking to a ped without opening it or unhooking the grounds. Consider:
A: the lead hooked to the pair(probably dead) acting as a ground(it can still fullfill this function if there is enough length, even though it may not be hooked up at the other point)
B:the lead hooked to the panel(with a grounded backboard) that the wires are spliced into.(must have been metal that's why you grounded to it))
C:the transmitter in between sending power in both directions(but to the same line)
D: Any bleed off onto other lines connected at that same panel when the juice reaches that point.
All the power going to one direction(hopefully not bleeding off onto catv, other phone lines, power)
Did you follow it all the way to the splice point? That would be prudent. Was it the right cable?

Another possibility, is that the panel did it's job fine as a ground and the pairs located fine. You didn't say if you tried independant ground 1st, you went straight from a mistake to grounding at the panel.

**underground quester** · May 4th, 2009, 10:40 PM

Okay:

Need to have some questions answered in plain english please.

1) My understanding of "hotpairing was connecting to a "live" pair. But it SOUNDS like phoenix you attached to a dead pair. Is either case considered hot pairing (connecting to an "in use" or unused pair).

2) Were there metal conduit pipes encasing the cables to protect them? If so, the signal is indeed going to ground via the metal conduit.

3) If I entered a large commercial building and encountered a commercial BIX BLOCK, where the heck would I connect the positive lead? Advance, any ideas?

**RD_Wrangler** · May 4th, 2009, 11:05 PM

Hot-pairing IS DC-ing to an active pair, that is, a pair with active service. DC-ing to available pairs without active service is spair-pairing (spair pair).

**sprayandpray** · May 4th, 2009, 11:14 PM

Spare- pairing only works if the "tip: side is still connected and not cut somewhere b/4 it gets to ground. On a "hot pair", or working line, you know the tip runs all the way back to the next ped , x-box or other splice point.

**advanceMan** · May 5th, 2009, 12:00 PM

UGQ
Find the cable going into the BIX and look for any spare or unterminated pairs. It's mostly an unravelling process in any cable locate. If unable, how many line are going into it? If just one, finding exposed copper (or something it's grounded to directly or otherwise) somewhere should'nt be too hard. if more, u need to follow both to splice point to differentiate. You might need to try a few different frequencies and use your brain.Distibution boxes/panels differ and vary. Being a "telephone guy", i just unhook shit and hook it back up later. Not all of you can get away with this. Generally it's better to start from the ped/hh/ whatever and work towards the building, it simplifies things. If not possible you need to get creative.(Goes without saying, but i said it).