RD 4000 or Seektech 60

**martinv** · April 27th, 2009, 09:02 AM

Hi ...... would apreciate some guidence from the old hands here.

We are a small outfit engaged with directional drilling, mostly on the outskirts of Perth City in Western Australia. Just started up again after an 8 year break and still useing an old Radiodetection set consisting of a RD400SL locator and a RD400STX Transmitter bought in 1997.

I guess the Technology has moved on some and we really ought to upgrade to something more substantial, we also need a locator that can read deeper than 3meters (analogue max is 3m), as we intend using the locator to follow the drill head on deeper bores down to 4-5m (18ft) Using the Geni Clamped on to the Drill pipe to get a signal and depth read out.

It seems the Kit of Choice for us would be either a RD 4000 or the Seektech 60.

We usually use the detection gear on our drill site for anything between 10mins and an hour depending on the situation ........ so we dont pretend to be full time professionals ....... realy just want to know where the Power is..!! but Phone, Water and Gas are important as well...! and if we can do it quickly ...... thats a doubble bonus.

At present we have no way of locating Fibre optics, but dont often get near it. Generally we dont expect to be in an inner City "Hell Hole" of an intersection....... usually a bit on one side of the Road and a bit on the other with the odd Sewer thrown in for luck.

One of the advantages of the RD 4000 is we can probably pick one up second hand for a reasonable price, but the Seektech has a bit of an attraction to us simple drilling people and may be worth paying a premium for.

Look forward to hearing from you........ many thanks .... Martin V

**RD_Wrangler** · April 27th, 2009, 10:17 AM

My opinion is you can't go wrong with the 4000. (Big surprise huh? lol). If you're familiar with the 400, then you won't have any difficulties with the 4000 controls. It's great on phone, catv, fiber, pipeline (gas, water, oil, etc) and electric. It has an awesome passive reciever for grid sweeps. The reciever is also fairly durable and impervious to rain in my experience. Not to mention the fact you could still use your 400 transmitters with the 4000 reciever in a pinch, and vice-versa. They have the same frequencies, the 4000 transmitter just has more wattage potential.

As far as comparison, sadly Seektech is one I haven't had the chance to try out. So I can't tell ya much. Good luck!

**headcipher** · April 27th, 2009, 12:15 PM

The Seektech doesn't have many advantages over the other systems out there. the best thing on it is a narrower 60 cycle, or power 60.

The rd4000 can be sweet, but really heavy and expensive.

Vivax is built by all the same people as the 4000, cheaper, lighter, with more options.

But all that aside, if you're using it to follow your drill head there are machines that are better suited for deep drilling.

Most boring companies seem to use ditch witch/sub-site.

I'm sure there are many other machines for use with boring I've never heard of that could be better for you.

Do a little research and demo some equipment. You have to find what works best for you, and that's not neccessarily what me or others would choose for day to day locating.

**AULupstate** · April 27th, 2009, 04:56 PM

One of the cool things about the SR-60 (and ST-33Q Transmitter) is you can load ANY FREQUENCY from other manufacturers.

If you have a bunch of 4000's sitting around buying the Ridgid set up would be beneficial because you could use ALL of your equipment at the same time, on the same frequencies with no problems.

However it is expensive and takes some training to use. It isn't the 'be all end all' of utility locating. Having some good experience under your belt would help, or a bunch of free time to practice with it after watching the dvd's that come with it. It's NOT fool proof and can trick you into a false sense of security.

I would suggest buying ONE and trying it out along with the rest of what you have. If you don't like it and Ridgid won't take it back sell it on Ebay.

**Locateman** · April 27th, 2009, 06:28 PM

I do know that Ditch Witch offers a Tracker for directional drills with locating capability built in. The tracker is called a 750 tracker. It has a 60Hz power mode and a 8kHz active mode in it to be used with a transmitter. Very simple to use.

**martinv** · April 27th, 2009, 08:30 PM

Our Drill is a little special (and a little old!) .... it is an early hammer drill and was designed to use a magnetic steering system (no sondes were tough enough at the time) and works pretty well, but it also has a depth limit of about 3.5m and is pretty slow to use.
The primary use of the RD or Seektech is to locate Utilities and occasionally (once or twice a year) the dill head if it is deeper than 3m.
AULupstate's comment on the Seektech that.... "It's NOT fool proof and can trick you into a false sense of security" .... is probably the core question. The Visual Display is very attractive to us Tactile Types. I guess the question is ... are we more likley to be led astray by the Seektech than the RD 4000.?
The other Core question is Robustness ..... it looks as tho the Seektech would have to live in its Carry Case, not the back of Drill trailer.

And another question ..... How do you guys locate Fibre if it is not armoured....? Is there any difference with the RD and Seektech.

**AULupstate** · April 27th, 2009, 08:54 PM

As far as the Ridgid goes that solid black line ISN'T always the utility. You still need to use the left and right arrow to center the machine. Sometimes that is off and not in line with the arrows and center line.

If you just follow the line YOU WILL BE IN TROUBLE.

As far as robustness goes, yes it pretty much has to live in it's case not just layin around getting banged up.

Fibre that isn't armored??? Yeah that either gets the GPR or the phone call saying 'unlocatable'.

**RD_Wrangler** · April 27th, 2009, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by martinv

And another question ..... How do you guys locate Fibre if it is not armoured....?

Lol, you pray the install crew plowed a trace wire with it, hope it's in a conduit so you can run a fish tape, or convince your company to invest in GPR.

Sheathless fiber is the bane of every locator's existence and the engineer that designed it will be one of the first against the wall when the revolution comes...

**martinv** · April 27th, 2009, 11:07 PM

Thanks for the very Swift replies fellas ...... I guess at the end of the Day its great to have the option of making a choice between the Seektech, RD and I think I will have a look at the Vivax as well. (thanks for that headcipher). Seems like they are all pretty good machines.
With our limited budget ($1000-1200) I think we will probably go for a second hand RD4000 with 4000 Generator (our old 8mHz Unit is a bit limited) and try get a Seektech later.
There seems to be a lot more Used equipment available in the USA then here in Ozz ....... any suggestions on where to get the best deal...

**testtech** · April 28th, 2009, 12:12 AM

The Seektech provides a clearer indication of interference than the 4000. However, once you know you have interference, the various indications don't really provide an answer to the real field location. At least, I haven't figured out a reliable interpretation. The line indicator generally provides a very clear view of a turn or intersection. It will get you through this type of structure faster than the 4000. The Seektech takes some time to process the signal. This can slow you down. The 4000 processes faster (but provides fewer indications of signal quality). One of the nice features of the Seektech is that when the signal is good, you don't have to stay over the line to track it. Thus, you can move faster. I have tracked lines beneath mobile homes from the side of the mobile home and you can still see the direction it is heading. I hoping that the next Seektech generator will help sort out interference to find the true field of interest. If you read their patent filings, they seem to be headed in that direction.

**martinv** · April 28th, 2009, 12:22 AM

testtech...... apreciate that .... could be usefull for working arround parked cars.

If you have time, can you give me some idea of what sort of interference problems you have experienced and what you might try to do, to resolve them.

Apreciate you dont have a magic formula, but would be a good starting point for me.

**Locateman** · April 28th, 2009, 09:24 AM

I no you have been looking at the RD4000 and Seektech 60, but I have always had good luck with the Subsite locators. Ours is a 950R/T and it has done everything we have needed it to do and the operation is as simple if not more simple than the RD4000.

**Utilitrack** · April 29th, 2009, 11:40 AM

Check out the RD7000 or 8000 instead of the RD4000, much lighter.

**martinv** · April 29th, 2009, 10:26 PM

A 7000 or 8000 would be great, but I think well outside of our budget....... where do you recommend I check for the best deal New or Used.....?

**martinv** · April 29th, 2009, 10:32 PM

I believe I read that with the 8000 you can change frequencies "on the fly" (from the locator) without having to go back to the Generator....? I presume it automatically throws out what ever the locator is set to.

If you have a poor signal and want to run through a few different frequencies without having to move off the spot, that would seem to be a pretty big bonus....!

Have I understood this right..?