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Thread: Locating in trench lines.

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    Junior Member Madcow101's Avatar
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    Default Locating in trench lines.

    My transmitter and reciever are the RD4000. They both look like they did 4 tours in Iraq. Anyway, I am getting lost when looking for a specific line among the others. Any advice for FIA new guy trying to locate these ?

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    Default Re: Locating in trench lines.

    What are you bleeding onto and what are you trying to locate?

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    Default Re: Locating in trench lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madcow101 View Post
    My transmitter and reciever are the RD4000. They both look like they did 4 tours in Iraq. Anyway, I am getting lost when looking for a specific line among the others. Any advice for FIA new guy trying to locate these ?
    details.

    what are you marking and what else is In the area?

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    Senior Member yahoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Locating in trench lines.

    what are you locating ???
    wise men talk because they have something to say and fools because they have to say something....plato

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    Junior Member Madcow101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Locating in trench lines.

    Sorry. I was after fiber optic telecom lines. It ran between electric and comcast. This is my fourth field day, barely got a handle on all the in and out, and just about every locate I have hit this same issue. I'll get good tone from pedi to pedi then it's just gone. Asked the trainer about it and he just says " this is where you go into trouble shooting" and that's about it, my frequency is 512, and some times 8. I'm still pretty new, so if you need more details tell me what and I'll get it for ya.

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    Mke
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    Default Re: Locating in trench lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madcow101 View Post
    Sorry. I was after fiber optic telecom lines. It ran between electric and comcast. This is my fourth field day, barely got a handle on all the in and out, and just about every locate I have hit this same issue. I'll get good tone from pedi to pedi then it's just gone. Asked the trainer about it and he just says " this is where you go into trouble shooting" and that's about it, my frequency is 512, and some times 8. I'm still pretty new, so if you need more details tell me what and I'll get it for ya.
    How did you hook up? Ring clamp? Direct connect? was there a tracer wire?

    These will probably lead to more questions.

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    Premium Member daman1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Locating in trench lines.

    Make sure Comcast isn't on the same ground as the comm lines. If they're common ground, you'll usually pick up whichever is shallowest the strongest.

    If there's a way to connect the sheathing or tracers in the peds, the signal should run through them. Check each ped you want to pass through and make sure they're grounded right. Did they preach about the necessity of bonding in training? Too many locators think it's a waste of time and that screws the next guy. The phone company will also get mad if it happens too much. There's a reason those ground straps are there.
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    Senior Member ProfessionalLocator's Avatar
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    Default Re: Locating in trench lines.

    Direct connection is best. If the fo has a metallic sheath you can ring clamp often but not always. A tip on this is there is usually a lot of slack in fo and is stored in ped / handhole as loops of fiber. put the clamp around as many of these as you can, it increases the amount of sheath exposed to the signal field and increases current on the line you are trying to mark.

    That said it is best to direct connect to the sheath. If there is no place to connect to the sheath then carefully skin back the insulation to expose the sheath. This may be frowned on by the fo owner but we are there to mark cable, they should have built an access point. We get fired for to many at fault damages so cya and get the line correctly marked.

    Just remember not all fo has a sheath, don't dig into the fo line3s themselves.
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    Premium Member daman1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Locating in trench lines.

    Clamping will not work well if there is only a tiny tracer wire with the fiber. This wire can be as thin as a human hair and may be embedded in the cloth pull tape or in the insulation. I had areas where the fiber is both unsheathed and there are no tracers. It's unusual but not unheard of. If that's the case then nothing will work. You should try to establish contact with a utility engineer who is willing to tell you what his records show but, normally, they don't care enough to return your call. Unsheathed fiber with no tracer or access is untoneable unless someone knows a trick I don't.

    I have a thick sewing needle for when the utility decided not to provide access points. Poke through the insulation at a really sharp angle until it just barely punches through the insulation on top of the sheathing. Attach my clips to the needle and run the signal. Since there are often no access points, sometimes it's the only way to go. There are clips out there that you can buy which have tiny prongs that dig just under the insulation into the sheath. It's safer and it doesn't leave that tell tale sign plus it gives you deniability.

    Madcow is too new for a stunt like that though. A seasoned tech who knew he could trust me showed me that trick years ago and it does work but make a wrong move and you'll damage that fiber. NOT A NEWBIE TRICK !! I'd rather you call a tech who has been around and has done this before. Your Sup will tell you never do this so it's a don't ask, don't tell kind of thing.
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    Senior Member ProfessionalLocator's Avatar
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    Default Re: Locating in trench lines.

    fo with no tracer. if buried in duct push a metal electrian's "fishtape" up the duct. usually works.
    the one I had was 250' long.
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    Junior Member Madcow101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Locating in trench lines.

    Direct connect. And I had perfect signal from pedi to ped, but from the third ped where it ran between the two other lines nothing. I checked my transmitter to make sure I was getting tone, it was my ground was good and I made sure my reciever was set to the same frequency as my transmitter. I had three tickets in a row where this was a problem. Today my coach swapped my ground rod and reciever for his so he could see what my issue is. I know it's a really stupid newber mistake. Just pisses me off because I don't understand it and it's HOT!

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    Junior Member Madcow101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Locating in trench lines.

    Screen shot that and will remember it.

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    Premium Member daman1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Locating in trench lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by ProfessionalLocator View Post
    fo with no tracer. if buried in duct push a metal electrian's "fishtape" up the duct. usually works.
    the one I had was 250' long.
    There's direct buried unsheathed fiber in my area that there just isn't much you can do. They spend all that money on fiber and then pay some here today gone tomorrow bore crew as little as possible to bury it. The bid sheet was probably written in Spanish. Too cheap for sheathing or large gauge tracer. Test stands get installed but never get hooked up. Then they bitch when no one can mark it. The only way I was able to mark mine was by the personal memory of a utility engineer who told me that it was joint trenched with a now retired copper cable. I found the terminated copper end in a hand hole and marked it out praying the engineer wasn't full of crap. I have no idea how other techs without this personal knowledge did it after me.

    My guess is with Madcow that he just hasn't found the right access point. An experienced eye is often better than prints for finding them.
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    Premium Member daman1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Locating in trench lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madcow101 View Post
    Direct connect. And I had perfect signal from pedi to ped, but from the third ped where it ran between the two other lines nothing. I checked my transmitter to make sure I was getting tone, it was my ground was good and I made sure my reciever was set to the same frequency as my transmitter. I had three tickets in a row where this was a problem. Today my coach swapped my ground rod and reciever for his so he could see what my issue is. I know it's a really stupid newber mistake. Just pisses me off because I don't understand it and it's HOT!
    Oh yeah, crappy equipment will screw you up too. Don't let it get to you buddy.
    Last edited by daman1; June 16th, 2016 at 08:30 PM.

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    Administrator TheCableVine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Locating in trench lines.

    If I'm reading this right you sound like you are trying to push a signal through a ped. Maybe i'm wrong. It's always best to locate from one ped to the next. Disconnect and then move your transmitter to the next ped and continue to locate. Sometimes you can push through a ped but usually it leads to bad locates and a waste of time.
    phoenix827 and SubterraVT like this.
    "Change does not always equal progress."

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