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Thread: Drop Box

  1. #1
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    Default Drop Box

    What does it mean when you drop box to locate and how does it work? When would you want to locate by drop boxing?

    Thanks

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    Moderator Goldenboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drop Box

    Dropping the box is just another way of saying inducing. Set the transmitter on the target line with no leads plugged in and away you go. This is something not meant for everyone. It is pretty much blind locating because you don't know what you're locating. One good thing it is used for is inducing primaries back into a switch gear to get the crazy bends right next to the switch gear.

    Normally inducing is used when you have no hookup points or the hook ups points are too far away.

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    Senior Member FiosKing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drop Box

    you dont need to know it because you should NEVER use it lol... goldenboy explains it perfect

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    Senior Member 6feetunder's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drop Box

    Leads??!!! What are those for? Just drop it like it's hot and run with it, that's the ticket. Well we can't forget about power mode. If you can't power mode it then induce it, isn't that the proper procedure? Oh and if neither one of those work then pull out the trusty witching sticks, those will never fail you. If none of this works then just eyeball it and paint wide.
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    Senior Member yahoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drop Box

    this should be used for svc's only !!!! Goldenboy said it perfect!!! and 6 feet thinks just like i do!!! ha!
    wise men talk because they have something to say and fools because they have to say something....plato

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    Premium Conservative OVUS1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drop Box

    We use the "drop box" method whenever required due to plant conditions, but only if we have records to back up what the induced locate reveals. Our techs generally have to get manager approval or at least document any situation where induction is used. In New Jersey, we used induction about 80% of the time because of inside meter sets and unable to access curb boxes. The union wouldn't allow us to pothole to verify accuracy, and even Mr. Regulatory up there thought we were crazy for asking to dig to verify the line's location. We couldn't even have a shovel in our trucks - had to dig up curb boxes with screwdrivers or with whatever we could find to get the job done.

    Induction (dropping the box) has it's uses, but even a seasoned tech will shy away from induction unless it is the last possible means to try and locate something underground.
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    Senior Member headcipher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drop Box

    Quote Originally Posted by OVUS1 View Post
    Our techs generally have to get manager approval or at least document any situation where induction is used.

    Induction (dropping the box) has it's uses, but even a seasoned tech will shy away from induction unless it is the last possible means to try and locate something underground.
    From one seasoned tech, let me say that if you locate much in the way of water and gas you need to know how to induce.

    It should be a honed skill, something you can use reliably, and know where and when to use it.

    Unless you are in a newer area it may be the only way to get some things to run.

    If you are properly trained in it's use it can lead to finding many "unlocatable" utilities.

    But that said, if you don't even know the terms for inducing, or it's against your company policy, don't do it.

    Want to learn induction, you need time and tips from those who have extensive experience.

    Some machines are very poor for induction as well.

    Newb's beware, but a very useful tool.

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    Senior Member beyond help's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drop Box

    Quote Originally Posted by headcipher View Post
    From one seasoned tech, let me say that if you locate much in the way of water and gas you need to know how to induce.

    It should be a honed skill, something you can use reliably, and know where and when to use it.

    Unless you are in a newer area it may be the only way to get some things to run.

    If you are properly trained in it's use it can lead to finding many "unlocatable" utilities.

    But that said, if you don't even know the terms for inducing, or it's against your company policy, don't do it.

    Want to learn induction, you need time and tips from those who have extensive experience.

    Some machines are very poor for induction as well.

    Newb's beware, but a very useful tool.
    Perfectly said!
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    Senior Member GPGrasshopper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drop Box

    Many people above have said it well. Iduction does have it uses in certain situations, but direct connection is preferred. Even an induction clamp is better than "dropping the box." A lot of less experienced techs wind up getting damages because they see more experienced people use this technique and think they can do it too and they end up bleeding off onto other lines. If you don't know what you are doing, carefully consider before you try it.
    I seek not to know the answers, but to understand the questions.

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    Senior Member UULC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drop Box

    Nop's you have a 4000 and it sucks. A 400 and Pipe Horn are a lot better. Call me and I will explain.

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    Senior Member phoenix827's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drop Box

    Quote Originally Posted by 6feetunder View Post
    If none of this works then just eyeball it and paint wide.
    BT, dt! But not much, and it WAS wide!! lol Biggest thing I use it for is a single primary drop in a 6" conduit. a 4" clamp doesn't fit too well!

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    Senior Member underground quester's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drop Box

    What others have said above should be heeded and taken into consideration.
    I will add a bit that has not been touched on too much.

    NOP's dropping the box is NOT, I repeat, NOT to be taken lightly.

    I could write a thesis on dropping the box but I won't.

    First off, I would say if you have to ask, you have not been instructed on when, where, how and WHEN not to use it.
    How long have you located and what utilities have you located?
    How much "real world" experience does the individual have that is talking about 'dropping" the box.

    There are also many things you need to understand about dropping the box.

    1) There are several different "ways" if you will of dropping the box.

    2) There is a definate process you should follow: Pinpoint, trace and locate the line.

    3) Do you understand what air coupling is? Do you know how it can impact your locate?

    4) Do you know about capacitance and attenuation? If not google them and get to understand them.

    5) Where should you NOT use "dropping the box".
    A few examples:
    NEVER, NEVER on PE, PVC or any other plastic lines.
    NEVER on unjacketed FOC stuff,
    NEVER in areas where two utilities are close to one another,
    NEVER when you do not understand what you are looking for.
    By example, if I check our records and see a gas pipeline running through farmer "beyond Helps" field, then I COULD choose to drop the box because I am relatively certain what the heck I am looking for.
    I would NEVER use it in an area where say there were a FOC, power and gas main in close proximity to one another.

    I do regularily use it where two pipelines run parallel AND I NEED to locate both, but AGAIN, this must not be taken lightly!!!!

    I have one area in my territory that has 11 High Pressure lines and 1 intermediate pressure line that are in a R.O.W. I still freak when I have to locate that S.O.B.

    6) Another key factor to remember it the bigger the object (ie: pipeline) the stronger the signal you will get. So, if you wre looking for a 2" gas pipeline versus an 8" pipeline, you will get stronger signal from the bigger one.
    And, therein lies another HUGE problem, if you really want to locate the smaller one, or, the deeper one, the line carrying 60HZ that is the biggest OR closest to the surface may draw you over to it.
    Serious shit in the wrong hands!

    PLEASE protect yourself and others by first finding out the do's and don'ts from EXPERIENCED people, not just those who believe themselves to be experienced. I am talking here about the folks you work directly with and NOT about any of the contributors on this forum.

    6) Think outside the box for possible hook up points. Direct connection is ALWAYS better than dropping the box AND is much quicker! But, that said, there are times when it is the only choice.

    7) FINALLY and this is repetition, do NOT take dropping the box lightly. Do your homework.

    Good luck to ya buddy.

    You have started out the correct way, by asking questions and seeking answers from many sources.

    If you have any questions, PM me and I will attempt to answer.

    Last edited by underground quester; May 1st, 2009 at 09:43 PM.
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    Senior Member yahoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drop Box

    hey UGQ ,,,,,,thank God you only share a little info to us.....much more and you'll have a mini series going on.........hahahhahahhahhahahaahhahahahahahahaahha a j/j
    wise men talk because they have something to say and fools because they have to say something....plato

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    Senior Member RD_Wrangler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Drop Box

    Quote Originally Posted by underground quester View Post

    4) Do you know about capacitance and attenuation? If not google them and get to understand them.

    PLEASE protect yourself and others by first finding out the do's and don'ts from EXPERIENCED people

    7) FINALLY and this is repetition, do NOT take dropping the box lightly. Do your homework.

    Good luck to ya buddy.



    You may also want to look up Wave Propogation, Edison's Antenna Theory, Hertz's and Maxwell's work on Electromagnetic Theory, Resonance, and any other terms you come across you don't recognize in regards to those terms...

    They'll not only help you understand induction better, it'll help your comprehension of Locating Theory overall.
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  15. #15
    Mke
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    Default Re: Drop Box

    About inducing.... I know its all been said before, but I had a night closure and couldn't get time to chime in till now.

    I liken Inducing to my experience with Math. You don't get to use the "short-cuts" till you understand how you got there.

    Induction only clouds the locating picture if you don't know what your look at, or for.

    With that being said, I couldn't do half of the locates I do, unless i could induce. As for conjested areas.... the only way to work through them is induction.

    For Underground Quester, I agree with you up to the point where you stated that the bigger diameter pipe would be a better signal when inducing. I have a Main city well head in Washington that would argue with you. 36" main barely locates, 4'' next to it lights up with not only every hook up, but with induction better then the 36". T.O.P. for the 36" is shallower then the 4".... go figure.

    Not trying to argue, just wanted to keep rookies understanding that their are no definites in locating.

    mke

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