Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 24
Like Tree9Likes

Thread: Difficulty locating power secondaries

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    3
    Rep Power
    0

    Post Difficulty locating power secondaries

    Had a situation arise with a secondary running from a transformer to a power pedestal. The line was energized, receiving the correct voltage in all three legs. When hooked to the outer case of the transformer it was undetectable using RD 7000 8K, 33K, 65K. Ground on transmitter 20Ma. Had a service truck unlock an open transformer in which we ring clamped the correct legs feeding power ped, still nothing. Also, tried a simple power sweep in the area of the power ped and received nothing. We ended up having to pull the bayonet and unhook the secondary from the transformer and direct connect to the conductor to locate the line. Is there any explanation to why this would not tone out any other way?

  2. #2
    Mke
    Mke is offline
    Senior Member Mke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Republic of Washington
    Posts
    1,536
    Years of Experience
    16
    Blog Entries
    34
    Rep Power
    77

    Default Re: Difficulty locating power secondaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Justanotherlocator82 View Post
    Had a situation arise with a secondary running from a transformer to a power pedestal. The line was energized, receiving the correct voltage in all three legs. When hooked to the outer case of the transformer it was undetectable using RD 7000 8K, 33K, 65K. Ground on transmitter 20Ma. Had a service truck unlock an open transformer in which we ring clamped the correct legs feeding power ped, still nothing. Also, tried a simple power sweep in the area of the power ped and received nothing. We ended up having to pull the bayonet and unhook the secondary from the transformer and direct connect to the conductor to locate the line. Is there any explanation to why this would not tone out any other way?
    so... a couple of questions. What was this Secondary Ped feeding? Can depth be ruled out as a reason? Type of Primary? Some old sodium primaries locate like s@#$.

    There can be several reasons for this and unfortunately its all guess work. It could be as simple as it being deeper then your equipment will allow (probably not). It could be a primary that is made of meterial that deteriorates and causes your signal to drop at an exedingly increasing rate (sodium primaries). There could be some weird fault in the primary that is allowing current to flow, but causing interference to the freequency you are introducing to the line. Or the real fun one is that there is a piece of industrial equipment on the other end of that line causing multi-freequency interference on the line. Such as the Variable freequency drives for industrial pumps..... Just a thought.

    Do you know some of these questions to help understand the situation?

    mke

  3. #3
    Senior Member superman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    397
    Years of Experience
    18
    Rep Power
    20

    Default Re: Difficulty locating power secondaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Justanotherlocator82 View Post
    Had a situation arise with a secondary running from a transformer to a power pedestal. The line was energized, receiving the correct voltage in all three legs. When hooked to the outer case of the transformer it was undetectable using RD 7000 8K, 33K, 65K. Ground on transmitter 20Ma. Had a service truck unlock an open transformer in which we ring clamped the correct legs feeding power ped, still nothing. Also, tried a simple power sweep in the area of the power ped and received nothing. We ended up having to pull the bayonet and unhook the secondary from the transformer and direct connect to the conductor to locate the line. Is there any explanation to why this would not tone out any other way?
    First off, you were locating from the wrong way. Should have located from the pedestal. If there is nothing that the pedestal is feeding, then that is the most likley reason for no signal. The secondary just goes to the ped and terminates. Your trying to locate the secondary backwards, which is like trying to locate a gas line with a broken tracer wire. If that was the case, then you have to have the power co. come out and open that ped.
    Last edited by superman; August 23rd, 2013 at 06:32 PM.

  4. #4
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    3
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Difficulty locating power secondaries

    The secondary ped isn't currently feeding anything at the moment. When direct connected to the conductor the receiver read 3'3" and the conductor is aluminum. As far as the layout goes, it is a brand new development. The secondary line was crossing two 1/4 acre lots before reaching the secondary pedestal. The primaries toned out fine all the way to their next transformer.
    Wingfoot likes this.

  5. #5
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    3
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Difficulty locating power secondaries

    Our secondary pedestals are made of plastic. Our last line of defense is calling a serviceman out to open these boxes to access the lines inside.

  6. #6
    Senior Member superman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    397
    Years of Experience
    18
    Rep Power
    20

    Default Re: Difficulty locating power secondaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Justanotherlocator82 View Post
    Our secondary pedestals are made of plastic. Our last line of defense is calling a serviceman out to open these boxes to access the lines inside.
    Next time, make it your first line of defence, cause that's all you can do especially if there are other utilities in the area.

  7. #7
    Senior Member ProfessionalLocator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,309
    Years of Experience
    20
    Rep Power
    102

    Default Re: Difficulty locating power secondaries

    You did not get a reading on 60hz sweep becasue although the line was energized (voltage) there was no load (current) running through it to make the 60hz magnetite field strong enough for your receiver to read.

    If the power company tech is willing have them hook and electric heater to ped and you will find the line by 60hz sweep.

    More than likely there is a poor ground connection somewhere preventing you from getting a signal by connecting to the case which is supposed to be tied in with the grounding system.

    Why the ring clamp did not work I have not figured out.

  8. #8
    Member Kramit69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    In a pot hole
    Posts
    84
    Years of Experience
    25
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: Difficulty locating power secondaries

    I carry with me a 1000' roll of dog fence wire. Hook positive from transmitter to ped and loop ground (fence wire) back to transformer. Keep wire out of locate area. Works sometimes.
    I have done this in really old underground areas with great success.
    Last edited by Kramit69; August 23rd, 2013 at 08:20 PM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member superman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    397
    Years of Experience
    18
    Rep Power
    20

    Default Re: Difficulty locating power secondaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Kramit69 View Post
    I carry with me a 1000' roll of dog fence wire. Hook positive from transmitter to ped and loop ground (fence wire) back to transformer. Keep wire out of locate area. Works sometimes.
    I have done this in really old underground areas with great success.
    How do you hook the positive lead upto the ped when it's usually made of fiberglass or plastic? I understand your therory, but that's pretty much impossible. There's nothing on the ped to hook to. The new fiberglass peds are not grounded.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    wisconsin
    Posts
    815
    Years of Experience
    11.75 yrs
    Rep Power
    41

    Default Re: Difficulty locating power secondaries

    Quote Originally Posted by superman View Post
    How do you hook the positive lead upto the ped when it's usually made of fiberglass or plastic? I understand your therory, but that's pretty much impossible. There's nothing on the ped to hook to. The new fiberglass peds are not grounded.
    sometimes there is the exposed portion of the support rod where the ped is attached. they also ground the base at the latch so you hook up at those two points

  11. #11
    Member Kramit69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    In a pot hole
    Posts
    84
    Years of Experience
    25
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: Difficulty locating power secondaries

    Quote Originally Posted by superman View Post
    How do you hook the positive lead upto the ped when it's usually made of fiberglass or plastic? I understand your therory, but that's pretty much impossible. There's nothing on the ped to hook to. The new fiberglass peds are not grounded.
    A elec. meter will do

  12. #12
    Senior Member superman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    397
    Years of Experience
    18
    Rep Power
    20

    Default Re: Difficulty locating power secondaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Kramit69 View Post
    A elec. meter will do
    Read the entire thread. There was no electric meter.

  13. #13
    Senior Member superman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    397
    Years of Experience
    18
    Rep Power
    20

    Default Re: Difficulty locating power secondaries

    Quote Originally Posted by paintitnow View Post
    sometimes there is the exposed portion of the support rod where the ped is attached. they also ground the base at the latch so you hook up at those two points
    Maybe where your at, but here there are no support rods. There are support rods on tv and phone peds but not on the newer fiberglass and plastic electric peds. The electric peds are like the transformers, they have a padmount that they sit on. They are basically a hand-hole with a pedestal sitting on top. They are also not grounded. The cables just come up inside, hit their demand point, and have a rubber boot taped around them. Same with an electric hand-hole, not grounded. The fiberglass turtlebacks are grounded, but those usually just have primary splices in them.
    Last edited by superman; August 24th, 2013 at 02:14 PM.

  14. #14
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Northwest Indiana
    Posts
    27
    Years of Experience
    2
    Rep Power
    6

    Default Re: Difficulty locating power secondaries

    It's the same in my area. The only way I found to locate the plastic secondary peds is to hook onto a house and locate through the ped to the transformer. They have no metal points on the outside of them besides the lock and the bracket for the lock that connects directly to the plastic case. If the ped isn't feeding anything I'd imagine the only way to locate it is to have a serviceman open up the secondary and have them hook you up.

  15. #15
    Senior Member USIC1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Md. Va. Wv.
    Posts
    1,802
    Years of Experience
    na
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Difficulty locating power secondaries

    This is where 480khz could maybe have done the trick ?

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •