Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20
Like Tree8Likes

Thread: Accuracy Rating

  1. #1
    joe
    joe is offline
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    southwest
    Posts
    2
    Years of Experience
    25
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Accuracy Rating

    Hello, wondering what the industry standards are on damages per 10000 locates. Please don't say 0. Thanks for your help

  2. #2
    Senior Member CableAvoidanceTool's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Locator's Paradise
    Posts
    111
    Years of Experience
    9
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: Accuracy Rating

    You know, it really depends on the utility and also the population density. As well as how many utilities you are doing per locate.

    I can tell you right now, that underground copper telephone has the most locator at-fault damages in the rural states, and perhaps the entire country. It's mostly buried in rural areas, and DOES exist even in very rural areas. Like cornfields, farm land, etc.

    And I can also tell you that copper-clad steel Cable TV has the lowest at-fault damages in the country. It's mostly overhead, it tones very well, and simply doesn't exist in very rural places.

    Now if you were to focus ONLY on major cities, it might be a different story. Those kinds of places are littered with gas and water on every street, and there are no overhead gas or water lines, let me tell you...


    So to answer your question...it depends.

    If you were doing Cable TV only, I might say 1 at-fault damage in 6,000 locates would be the threshold for acceptable locator performance.

    If you were doing rural telephone only, I could say 1 at-fault damage per 3,000 locates would be reasonable.

    If you were doing Gas, Telephone, Electric, and Cable, perhaps 1 at-fault per 1,000 locates would be something to go on.

    If you were working in a city that owned every possible utility it could own, so Electric, Gas, Water and Sewer, maybe even down to something like 1 in every 600 locates for an at-fault damage.


    Again this is all my own opinion. But it should be a useful benchmark.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    somewhere
    Posts
    57
    Years of Experience
    4
    Rep Power
    6

    Default Re: Accuracy Rating

    if its power or gas I would definitely say 0. no excuses for putting peoples lives at risk.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    around the corner
    Posts
    548
    Years of Experience
    21
    Rep Power
    30

    Default Re: Accuracy Rating

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Edward View Post
    if its power or gas I would definitely say 0. no excuses for putting peoples lives at risk.
    This coming from a guy with 40 posts and 2.5 years locating 1 way ****ing tickets

  5. #5
    Senior Member The Big-E's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Tampa
    Posts
    247
    Years of Experience
    10
    Rep Power
    19

    Default Re: Accuracy Rating

    Quote Originally Posted by CableAvoidanceTool View Post
    Those kinds of places are littered with gas and water on every street, and there are no overhead gas or water lines, let me tell you...
    water.jpg

  6. #6
    Mke
    Mke is offline
    Senior Member Mke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Republic of Washington
    Posts
    1,536
    Years of Experience
    16
    Blog Entries
    34
    Rep Power
    77

    Default Re: Accuracy Rating

    I guess I look at things differently. Instead of splitting locates by utility, they should be separated by difficulty. I think there should be zero tolerance for easy shit that gets hit. However, you increase the difficulty rating on the utility, the allowance for damages should be greater.

    The question now comes down to who is knowledgeable enough to rate the difficulty.

    Mke

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    somewhere
    Posts
    57
    Years of Experience
    4
    Rep Power
    6

    Default Re: Accuracy Rating

    Quote Originally Posted by orangeboots View Post
    This coming from a guy with 40 posts and 2.5 years locating 1 way ****ing tickets
    Ive learned enough in 2.5 years to know if you can accurately locate thousands of tickets why would you miss locate the one. Im damage free and locate anywhere from 1 to 4 way tickets. If Im not confident in an area where power is impossible I have the power company come out and open up the transformer for me to couple. Ive dug up lines to be sure as well. There really is no excuse whether you have 10 years or 3 months of experience. We have a good reputation for these reasons and don't hesitate to get rid of lazy locators.

  8. #8
    Mke
    Mke is offline
    Senior Member Mke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Republic of Washington
    Posts
    1,536
    Years of Experience
    16
    Blog Entries
    34
    Rep Power
    77

    Default Re: Accuracy Rating

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Edward View Post
    Ive learned enough in 2.5 years to know if you can accurately locate thousands of tickets why would you miss locate the one. Im damage free and locate anywhere from 1 to 4 way tickets. If Im not confident in an area where power is impossible I have the power company come out and open up the transformer for me to couple. Ive dug up lines to be sure as well. There really is no excuse whether you have 10 years or 3 months of experience. We have a good reputation for these reasons and don't hesitate to get rid of lazy locators.
    Little defensive?

    Back when I was a teenager I went to the DMV in california and grabbed the pamplet about getting your motorcycle license. In the first paragraph it states, "There are two types of motorcycle riders. Ones who have laid the bike down, and the ones who are going to lay the bike down."

    Locating is the same way. It's only a matter of time. The trick is, when your card is punched by the locate gods, you need to make sure that what ever was damaged was impossible to locate.

    I also believe your logic is flawed. One does not "choose" to miss a utility. The utility is missed for two reasons and two reasons only. 1) the utility 2) the locator - the one holding the reciever -

    It's great that when your locates get "tough" you can call in techs to access the equipment to make locating it easier. However, 85% of the locators out there do not have that luxury.

    It's alright to get upset at Boots' comments. Locating is an ego filled industry and one never likes to get their dangly appendage to be stepped on by another locator. You have to understand that in 2 1/2 years with only a single utility to be responsible for limits you to the experience and situations that the other locators are facing.

    At the two year mark in my career I was damage free (no at-faults). I was very confident in my abilities. I was good enough to finish all my tickets and proceed to other offices to help out with overflow or "trouble" tickets. Hell, they even offered me the lead position in my office. (I turned it down) Then I got a job doing private locates and realized I knew nothing and seen nothing. As for dangerous utilities.... Natural gas and Electric are unfortunately in the middle of the pack. They are dangerous and need to be marked appropriately, but there are a whole lot of other things that can kill you in much more horrible manners and you still have to mark it.

    Some of the areas that will put hair on your chest:

    Fuel Farm or any Tank farms... specially the ones with caustic materials

    Large Natural gas Reguator stations

    Hospitals... Not the small regional ones either, like the big effers

    BPA substations and Dams..... Dams really suck.



    There's more, but i'll let other guys add to the list. These just bring up specific memories that make me want to smack my head up against blunt objects.

    I also want to highlight that in these locations, I had to locate everything.... everything.

    mke
    daman1 and Wingfoot like this.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    freedom usa
    Posts
    89
    Years of Experience
    18
    Rep Power
    10

    Default Re: Accuracy Rating

    I dont post much but have been doing this for 18 plus years. Here is 2 1/2 years gets you. Just enough knowledge to make you dangerous. When you get pass 5 years, you will understand.
    daman1, phoenix827 and Wingfoot like this.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    around the corner
    Posts
    548
    Years of Experience
    21
    Rep Power
    30

    Default Re: Accuracy Rating

    Thanks mke you said what i was trying to I was just more blunt about it. If I called the power comany to open a cabinet they would fall off the chair laughing. As for firing lazy techs I don't work for my father in law I am stuck with what I get.

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    somewhere
    Posts
    57
    Years of Experience
    4
    Rep Power
    6

    Default Re: Accuracy Rating

    Quote Originally Posted by Mke View Post
    Little defensive?

    Back when I was a teenager I went to the DMV in california and grabbed the pamplet about getting your motorcycle license. In the first paragraph it states, "There are two types of motorcycle riders. Ones who have laid the bike down, and the ones who are going to lay the bike down."

    Locating is the same way. It's only a matter of time. The trick is, when your card is punched by the locate gods, you need to make sure that what ever was damaged was impossible to locate.

    I also believe your logic is flawed. One does not "choose" to miss a utility. The utility is missed for two reasons and two reasons only. 1) the utility 2) the locator - the one holding the reciever -

    It's great that when your locates get "tough" you can call in techs to access the equipment to make locating it easier. However, 85% of the locators out there do not have that luxury.

    It's alright to get upset at Boots' comments. Locating is an ego filled industry and one never likes to get their dangly appendage to be stepped on by another locator. You have to understand that in 2 1/2 years with only a single utility to be responsible for limits you to the experience and situations that the other locators are facing.

    At the two year mark in my career I was damage free (no at-faults). I was very confident in my abilities. I was good enough to finish all my tickets and proceed to other offices to help out with overflow or "trouble" tickets. Hell, they even offered me the lead position in my office. (I turned it down) Then I got a job doing private locates and realized I knew nothing and seen nothing. As for dangerous utilities.... Natural gas and Electric are unfortunately in the middle of the pack. They are dangerous and need to be marked appropriately, but there are a whole lot of other things that can kill you in much more horrible manners and you still have to mark it.

    Some of the areas that will put hair on your chest:

    Fuel Farm or any Tank farms... specially the ones with caustic materials

    Large Natural gas Reguator stations

    Hospitals... Not the small regional ones either, like the big effers

    BPA substations and Dams..... Dams really suck.



    There's more, but i'll let other guys add to the list. These just bring up specific memories that make me want to smack my head up against blunt objects.

    I also want to highlight that in these locations, I had to locate everything.... everything.

    mke
    I wasn't trying to be super defensive about it but I have to respond to an offensive statement. Ive had a different experience then the USIC guys around me. We do a lot of private locates for sand plants, ethanol plants, sub station ground systems, and so on. I don't know where it states I only locate 1 utility. We locate Fiber, Catv, Phone, Power and gas. That's a few more then 1 isn't it? I understand a lot of guys here have 20 years of experience which still makes me a newb and I haven't experienced having horrible management on top of a company that understaffs its locators. I probably have more time then a USIC locator due to these two aspects to thoroughly locate 100 percent of the tickets I clear which does make me more confident I suppose. I wasn't trying to say that Damages=Lazy. Its just every damage ive seen out in the wild were a direct result of a bad lazy locator. If it was me my father in law/Boss wouldn't hesitate to fire me because he is a business man and knows where to draw the line. For us its not just crunching numbers as much as keeping utilities happy. Damaged catv never operates to the same efficiency as it does without a splice. Sorry if I offended anyone while I was on the defensive.

  12. #12
    Senior Member CableAvoidanceTool's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Locator's Paradise
    Posts
    111
    Years of Experience
    9
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: Accuracy Rating

    I think Yahoo had a thread about this years ago.

    He came up with a term called the "Gotcha!" damage. Basically, it's something happening with the utility or work area that is EXTREMELY unusual. So unusual, that it greatly increases the chances of a damage.

    For example, let's say that you are marking gas. You locate the gas line into a building, that comes into the front. Meaning the front of the building facing the street. The excavators are working in back. So you should be clear. But you hook up and tone out the service anyway just to verify that the map is correct.

    So you find the gas service going into the front of the building. So the work area behind the building should be clear of conflict, right?

    Say there is another building behind the first building. The 2nd building has a front entrance that faces another street. According to the map, that service comes in from the other street. So there should be nothing in back of that building either.

    So you clear the ticket.

    But in reality... The gas crew years ago installed a gas service line to the 2nd building FROM UNDERNEATH the basement of the 1st building to run to the back of the 2nd building. This is actually illegal as far as I know but I've seen it at least once.

    And the map doesn't show this at all, it's 100% wrong.

    So they hit the gas line. And it's at fault because you cleared it. It wasn't the ticket building's gas service in conflict, it was the building BEHIND the first building that had it's gas service in conflict. And the map DOES NOT show this correctly. And the practice of burying lines across property lines without permission from both property owners is illegal as well as a bad idea.

    See what I mean? Just bizarre situations like that. It's not lazy, it's a "GOTCHA!"

  13. #13
    Senior Member CableAvoidanceTool's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Locator's Paradise
    Posts
    111
    Years of Experience
    9
    Rep Power
    12

    Default Re: Accuracy Rating

    Quote Originally Posted by The Big-E View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	water.jpg 
Views:	32 
Size:	109.6 KB 
ID:	1342
    WOW!!! How the hell did they get the water to flow STRAIGHT upwards for this?

    Can't believe they didn't bury that. I certainly concede to this one rare example. Jesus!!

  14. #14
    Senior Member jayc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    438
    Years of Experience
    69
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Accuracy Rating

    Quote Originally Posted by CableAvoidanceTool View Post
    WOW!!! How the hell did they get the water to flow STRAIGHT upwards for this?

    Can't believe they didn't bury that. I certainly concede to this one rare example. Jesus!!

    That's not a water main, Einstein.

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    somewhere
    Posts
    57
    Years of Experience
    4
    Rep Power
    6

    Default Re: Accuracy Rating

    Quote Originally Posted by CableAvoidanceTool View Post
    I think Yahoo had a thread about this years ago.

    He came up with a term called the "Gotcha!" damage. Basically, it's something happening with the utility or work area that is EXTREMELY unusual. So unusual, that it greatly increases the chances of a damage.

    For example, let's say that you are marking gas. You locate the gas line into a building, that comes into the front. Meaning the front of the building facing the street. The excavators are working in back. So you should be clear. But you hook up and tone out the service anyway just to verify that the map is correct.

    So you find the gas service going into the front of the building. So the work area behind the building should be clear of conflict, right?

    Say there is another building behind the first building. The 2nd building has a front entrance that faces another street. According to the map, that service comes in from the other street. So there should be nothing in back of that building either.

    So you clear the ticket.

    But in reality... The gas crew years ago installed a gas service line to the 2nd building FROM UNDERNEATH the basement of the 1st building to run to the back of the 2nd building. This is actually illegal as far as I know but I've seen it at least once.

    And the map doesn't show this at all, it's 100% wrong.

    So they hit the gas line. And it's at fault because you cleared it. It wasn't the ticket building's gas service in conflict, it was the building BEHIND the first building that had it's gas service in conflict. And the map DOES NOT show this correctly. And the practice of burying lines across property lines without permission from both property owners is illegal as well as a bad idea.

    See what I mean? Just bizarre situations like that. It's not lazy, it's a "GOTCHA!"
    Ok Ive seen this but not with gas lines. We have a distribution center with fibers running between buildings. Could be up to 75 buildings, if its not on the prints we have it in our contract we are not at fault if a line gets hit that isn't mapped. Ive yet to see one hit because of this but how do most locating companies handle this? I mean that's excepting a lot of liability for something impossible to catch if you weren't around when it was buried. I wouldn't consider that an at fault damage so if that's what everyone is talking about then yeah im excepting of this scenario. I know a locating company that has a catv contract that has little to no prints and they basically have a non at fault clause and the cable company is cool with just repairing instead of paying an engineering firm to update prints.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •