Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 34

Thread: New Forum... NULCA

  1. #16
    Conservative Meanie ifinditunderground's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
    Posts
    1,808
    Years of Experience
    20
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    93

    Default Re: New Forum... NULCA

    Quote Originally Posted by advanceMan View Post
    Go work on as an advanceman/locator on a plow crew findit, then you might get my respect. Until then....I don't OWN a company cuz I was never interested in that or being a locator as long as i've been for that matter.
    Nope, advanceman, I won't, I have a great job running a reputable and profitable SUE company with an extensive company resume and client list. I've paid my dues. But I don't sit behind a desk every single day pretending I know what is going on, I still get out in the field when the work load dictates to help get the job done.

    Monday: Dug 7 test holes, and blew my piss poor competitor off of the job forever.

    Tuesday: Dug 7 more test holes to keep my new client working and HAPPY.

    Wednesday: Spent three hours on the airfield at Dulles Airport locating for a separate client. And was back in the office for the rest of the day. Then I drove home and took care of my kids for a few hours and drove back the 70 miles to the office and worked until 4:30 am digging 5 more test holes.

    Today, short day, but I was in the office doing all of the things that need to be done to make a company operate daily.

    I don't need to do your job, but I can. You can't do my job. Potheads with shitty attitudes like yours don't get Director's jobs, they stay on the bottom of the ladder bitching every day about their jobs, coworkers, management and their life. Crying like babies....
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Mental Illness."
    "America isn't free, in America you are free to follow the rules." -Anthony Cumia


  2. #17
    Banned advanceMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    194
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: New Forum... NULCA

    ok, but you haven't heard me do any of that. I won't say running a company is easy, but anyone can get a business license and make a go of it with the right conditions. If you haven't workedin that construction environment, you really don't know.Honestly, how much do you really think you know if you've never actually done the kind of work you locate? How are you in any way more prepared to tackle a problem than myself without that background? I've known some successful loctors turned owners. ANDREW MARK...., but they still don't have the EXPERIENCE and KNOWLEDGE of the constructon process, and by extension problem solving ability someone in theactual construction industy has. Maybe Dave can add something to this(though Dave, no offence to you, but most of the splicers I know only THINK they can locate) I doubt you could last findit, you're simply too uppity, but i'd give you a chance.

  3. #18
    Right Wing Conspirator GWJ_CAS's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    387
    Years of Experience
    31
    Rep Power
    28

    Default Re: New Forum... NULCA

    Quote Originally Posted by advanceMan View Post
    ok, but you haven't heard me do any of that. I won't say running a company is easy, but anyone can get a business license and make a go of it with the right conditions. If you haven't workedin that construction environment, you really don't know.Honestly, how much do you really think you know if you've never actually done the kind of work you locate? How are you in any way more prepared to tackle a problem than myself without that background? I've known some successful loctors turned owners. ANDREW MARK...., but they still don't have the EXPERIENCE and KNOWLEDGE of the constructon process, and by extension problem solving ability someone in theactual construction industy has. Maybe Dave can add something to this(though Dave, no offence to you, but most of the splicers I know only THINK they can locate) I doubt you could last findit, you're simply too uppity, but i'd give you a chance.
    Dare I even lend some level of credence to your point, but there is a valid argument...One of the points is the "business license" you mention...I have always had heartburn over that. In Florida, and at least seven of the other states in which we work, there is no "License" required to own or operate a utility locating company other than an occupational license, which is nothing more than a tax paid to the municipality in which you operte your office. The sad fact of this is; anyone who can pull together the funds to start a locating company can do just that, with little or no actual experience. This is evidenced by companies like (no offense) Unibar, who is a building cleaning (read janitor) company who decided to try locating...there are many others. This not to say that they don't hire knowlegeable or qualified folks, they often do, but that is as far as it goes.

    My company is a fully licensed Engineering AND Surveying firm with partners that have to put their professional license on the line. State law requires that in order to call ourselves an engineering or surveying firm, we must have licensed engineers or surveyors with an active ownership stake in the company AND, those licenses are on the line everyday. This is one of the issues I have with the non-licensed locating companies, they are not risking their professional career and the 4 or 5 years they spent in college to obtain the ability to get licensed.

    You also make a valid argument about system knowledge. Knowing how a system is designed and constructed is highly beneficial. All of our supervisory and management staff have come from surveying, design, construction or inspection backgrounds or a combination thereof. A few of my locators were directional drilling guys before coming over to locating permanently. Some of our other locators started out as the low man or laborer on a soft dig crew and worked their way up from there. The real interesting thing in that is this; the guys who have had these types of experiences are the ones who don't have damages, nearly all of our guys with damages are just "trained locators" with no real construction field experience.

    SUE guys are usually very good locators though. SUE guys are mostly having to find facilities without the benefit of the owners maps or prints, they are usually "locating blind" and having to use two-man inductive sweeps and dead reckoning skills that many "locators" have no idea how to do.

    But, despite having a valid argument, attitude is a big factor. Guys who display attitude like what you have displayed on this board, would be run out of our firm in the blink of an eye. I have seen many cocky locators have their a$$ handed to them over their attitude, despite their skills.

  4. #19
    Conservative Meanie ifinditunderground's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
    Posts
    1,808
    Years of Experience
    20
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    93

    Default Re: New Forum... NULCA

    Quote Originally Posted by advanceMan View Post
    ok, but you haven't heard me do any of that. I won't say running a company is easy, but anyone can get a business license and make a go of it with the right conditions. If you haven't workedin that construction environment, you really don't know.Honestly, how much do you really think you know if you've never actually done the kind of work you locate? How are you in any way more prepared to tackle a problem than myself without that background? I've known some successful loctors turned owners. ANDREW MARK...., but they still don't have the EXPERIENCE and KNOWLEDGE of the constructon process, and by extension problem solving ability someone in theactual construction industy has. Maybe Dave can add something to this(though Dave, no offence to you, but most of the splicers I know only THINK they can locate) I doubt you could last findit, you're simply too uppity, but i'd give you a chance.
    You must be absolutely retarded Advance, you make way too many assumptions about what I know, and how I learned it.

    Your assumption that I know absolutely NOTHING about the construction methods of utilities is completely laughable.......That is like saying Yahoo doesn't know where the ? and ! keys are on his keyboard. Sorry Yahoo, I couldn't resist.

    I don't even know where to start. But basically what you are saying is that since I have never been the advance man for a plow crew I don't know anything whatsoever about utility installation.

    Over the last 15 years I have dug approximately 5,000 to 6,000 test holes, that is a modest estimate at that. I have opened every openable manhole and handhole on every jobsite I have worked. I have looked in every utility trench I have come across over the last 15 years. I have talked to, compared notes with, shot the breeze with, and asked questions of every contractor I was tasked to assist. I have spent countless hours standing by watching those same contractors install hundreds of miles of utilites. The same goes for the HDD guys, and utility owners too. I have read any utility construction publication that has crossed my desk for the last three years to keep up with the newest technologies and techniques. I have hired and worked side by side with several HDD guys (exactly as CAS covered) and construction managers for three separate utilities. I have read as many as 30 separate publications dealing with specific utilities, their makeup, how they work, how they are installed and taken written tests on 10 of those books. I have read every locating theory publication I have gotten my hands on to learn theories of how EM signals act and interact when applied to underground utilities, the how's and why's of distortion, and frequency characteristics. (And all of the great information posted on this site as well.) I have worked with tens of thousands of utility records, civil plans, construction plans, arch plans, building plans and on and on and on to figure out how it was built so I can locate it properly. On top of all of that, I have located countless tens of thousands of miles of utilities. I could go on all night here, but I have proven my point. But, like you said, since I haven't been the advance man of a plow crew in Glorious Canada, I don't know a frigging thing and I am a stuffed shirt behind a desk. Retard.
    Last edited by ifinditunderground; June 26th, 2009 at 08:21 PM.
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Mental Illness."
    "America isn't free, in America you are free to follow the rules." -Anthony Cumia


  5. #20
    Premium Conservative OVUS1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    A little north of Kennesaw, GA
    Posts
    348
    Years of Experience
    30
    Rep Power
    23

    Default Re: New Forum... NULCA

    Quote Originally Posted by headcipher View Post
    Please tell me what NULCA has been doing in it's over 20 years for locators.

    By the way I don't work at a $6 ticket rate, I work for an awesome company that backs us for whatever we need as long as we need to get the job done right.

    Gold Seal of approval, huh?

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've read the best practices endorsed by nulca, thier best practices as put forth through the CGA doesn't allow for induction. I know, Ovus, that your company locates Gas, will you move to change this?

    As for the best practices, or any real info, on NULCA's site you have to plunk $100 to even view what you want to know. That's why I had to read it in the CGA's Best Standards 6.0.

    Represent me without the money? That would be great, since I can't go to any of these events being set up by the dues.
    I don't smoke, play lotto, or waste money, that's why I would have to see a clear benefit to joining.

    The structure sounds a lot like a union to me, and I can see there could be some use for a union with some of the contract companies, but that's not where I am.

    I think having reps from the upper management of a huge corporation(USIC) that many techs feel takes advantage of them is conflicting with the claim that that person is interested in the doing what's good for the locators.

    If someone has less than 5 years in the field to thier credit, I don't think they can possibly understand locators point of view.

    My opinion, I'm open to changing my mind, though.

    I'd like to hear from past members as well to hear what they've experienced.

    Actually NULCA is celebrating their 15th year as a trade organization this year, but to be honest they haven't really done a whole lot that I know of in the past few years. They got the Standards out and then sort of faded out of sight.

    Good to hear you are with a good company - there are many of them out there. Seems we only hear about the bad ones on this site for the most part (and only one side of the story most times too).

    I'd like to see the "NULCA Gold Seal" become the standard in locating but to be honest, I think the organization has a long way to go. Too many still in the mix that want to stay in the background and not open any "cans of worms". I thought that was what a trade organization was supposed to do - tackle the tough issues to make the industry better and be a conduit for the membership to bring issues to the table for action. I signed up for the long haul, but will break out and form a new organization if NULCA opts to sit in the back seat. The time is now for real change - no more words, we need ACTION.

    As for induction, NULCA Standards are only meant to be a guide, not an absolute. We all use different techniques and equipment to achieve the end result - we will continue to use what works best for us and for our customer whether it is NULCA "sanctioned" or not. While we locate a lot of gas, we also locate water sewer, fiber, power, certain phone and CATV facilities, GPR, do design work, vaccum excav, well, you get the picture.

    Plunking the dough down does much more than get you access to all the info on the website. It puts your voice and your agenda front and center to those that are trying to tell us how to locate, how to train, what equipment to buy, how much our work is worth, and on and on...... No events are being set up by your dues - not sure what your reference is to there.

    Not a union set-up - your agenda, your voice, your issues, but through a trade organization. I guess a union is sort of a trade organization, but NULCA will never call on you to strike or to take any adverse action to try and bring about change. We belive that we already have the power to effect change, it's just the challenge of getting all that power into one big pot and making our collective voices heard.

    Over the years, the perception was if one of the "big boys" was sitting at the table then the industry was being represented. WRONG! It actually only meant that the big company was represented. Today more and more smaller companies are stepping up, and many Operators now understand that the INDUSTRY has rarely been represented in the past. We have a unique opportunity here and now folks...

    I have to disagree with your claim that less than 5 years endows limited ability to understand a locators point of view. Have more faith in your fellow Damage Prevention Professionals! There are some pretty savvy people in this industry today. I have found more of the old-timers to be standing in the way of progress than many of the new class coming up through the ranks today. Have faith......

    Let's move this discussion to the NULCA board please. Steve went to a lot of trouble to get it set up for these important discussions.
    Last edited by OVUS1; June 28th, 2009 at 08:01 PM. Reason: Added a little clarity.....
    Job Applicant: What does this job pay?
    Employer: I'm going to pay you just what you are worth!
    Job Applicant: I don't think I can work for that......

  6. #21
    Banned advanceMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    194
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: New Forum... NULCA

    Sorry findit, still not sold, metrotech guy, you're right, but I haven't come as far as I have by having my ass handed to me, and the only companies that have ever used me or treated me shitty were contract locating companies.

  7. #22
    Premium Conservative OVUS1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    A little north of Kennesaw, GA
    Posts
    348
    Years of Experience
    30
    Rep Power
    23

    Default Re: New Forum... NULCA

    NULCA forum - NULCA discussions please.........
    Job Applicant: What does this job pay?
    Employer: I'm going to pay you just what you are worth!
    Job Applicant: I don't think I can work for that......

  8. #23
    Conservative Meanie ifinditunderground's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
    Posts
    1,808
    Years of Experience
    20
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    93

    Default Re: New Forum... NULCA

    You are right OVUS, thanks for the kick in the pants. I'm done anyway. Just for the record though......I don't run a Contract Locating company.
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Mental Illness."
    "America isn't free, in America you are free to follow the rules." -Anthony Cumia


  9. #24
    Premium Conservative OVUS1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    A little north of Kennesaw, GA
    Posts
    348
    Years of Experience
    30
    Rep Power
    23

    Default Re: New Forum... NULCA

    Neither do I. We are a Damage Prevention company

    Responding to or even acknowledging these dingleberries is like pouring gas on a fire.....
    Job Applicant: What does this job pay?
    Employer: I'm going to pay you just what you are worth!
    Job Applicant: I don't think I can work for that......

  10. #25
    Banned advanceMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    194
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: New Forum... NULCA

    ya ok, whatever makes you feel better

  11. #26
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana
    Posts
    48
    Years of Experience
    18
    Rep Power
    11

    Thumbs down Re: New Forum... NULCA

    Quote Originally Posted by GWJ_CAS View Post
    Dare I even lend some level of credence to your point, but there is a valid argument...One of the points is the "business license" you mention...I have always had heartburn over that. In Florida, and at least seven of the other states in which we work, there is no "License" required to own or operate a utility locating company other than an occupational license, which is nothing more than a tax paid to the municipality in which you operte your office. The sad fact of this is; anyone who can pull together the funds to start a locating company can do just that, with little or no actual experience. This is evidenced by companies like (no offense) Unibar, who is a building cleaning (read janitor) company who decided to try locating...there are many others. This not to say that they don't hire knowlegeable or qualified folks, they often do, but that is as far as it goes.

    My company is a fully licensed Engineering AND Surveying firm with partners that have to put their professional license on the line. State law requires that in order to call ourselves an engineering or surveying firm, we must have licensed engineers or surveyors with an active ownership stake in the company AND, those licenses are on the line everyday. This is one of the issues I have with the non-licensed locating companies, they are not risking their professional career and the 4 or 5 years they spent in college to obtain the ability to get licensed.

    You also make a valid argument about system knowledge. Knowing how a system is designed and constructed is highly beneficial. All of our supervisory and management staff have come from surveying, design, construction or inspection backgrounds or a combination thereof. A few of my locators were directional drilling guys before coming over to locating permanently. Some of our other locators started out as the low man or laborer on a soft dig crew and worked their way up from there. The real interesting thing in that is this; the guys who have had these types of experiences are the ones who don't have damages, nearly all of our guys with damages are just "trained locators" with no real construction field experience.

    SUE guys are usually very good locators though. SUE guys are mostly having to find facilities without the benefit of the owners maps or prints, they are usually "locating blind" and having to use two-man inductive sweeps and dead reckoning skills that many "locators" have no idea how to do.

    But, despite having a valid argument, attitude is a big factor. Guys who display attitude like what you have displayed on this board, would be run out of our firm in the blink of an eye. I have seen many cocky locators have their a$$ handed to them over their attitude, despite their skills.





    That was a low-blow there, GW...you could have used one-vision's name.

  12. #27
    Right Wing Conspirator GWJ_CAS's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    387
    Years of Experience
    31
    Rep Power
    28

    Default Re: New Forum... NULCA

    Quote Originally Posted by Trent3342 View Post
    That was a low-blow there, GW...you could have used one-vision's name.
    Sorry Trent, you guys just served as the most obvious example...I did say that Unibar hires quality folks though!

    G

  13. #28
    Premium Conservative OVUS1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    A little north of Kennesaw, GA
    Posts
    348
    Years of Experience
    30
    Rep Power
    23

    Default Re: New Forum... NULCA

    Quote Originally Posted by Trent3342 View Post
    That was a low-blow there, GW...you could have used one-vision's name.
    What did we do now???????
    Job Applicant: What does this job pay?
    Employer: I'm going to pay you just what you are worth!
    Job Applicant: I don't think I can work for that......

  14. #29
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana
    Posts
    48
    Years of Experience
    18
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: New Forum... NULCA

    Quote Originally Posted by OVUS1 View Post
    What did we do now???????
    You didn't do anything, I was just giving you a hard time...sense GWJ through me out there...

  15. #30
    Premium Conservative OVUS1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    A little north of Kennesaw, GA
    Posts
    348
    Years of Experience
    30
    Rep Power
    23

    Default Re: New Forum... NULCA

    Ah, his referencing your janitorial division and your locating division.... Pay no attention to GWJ - he's a very conflicted (and possibly demented) individual.....

    Don't ever get in a golf cart with him!
    Job Applicant: What does this job pay?
    Employer: I'm going to pay you just what you are worth!
    Job Applicant: I don't think I can work for that......

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •