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Thread: How is your truck organized ?

  1. #16
    Mke
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    Default Re: How is your truck organized ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jabajo View Post
    Yea, the company that produces that package said they will design and build whatever we want (I'm sure for $$$$). I have a feeling that my department might start dabbling in surveying in the next 5-10yrs. We need to get an actual GIS system in-place and now that the new Ditch Witch Utiliguard we bought offers an adaptor for GIS'ing your locate (how cool is that!!) it might push that timeline up a little faster.

    Ehhh... After some looking into it, using the GPS feature with the locator isn't feaseable. Even if you have access to survey quality receivers, there is no way to calibrate the antenna for the GPS to the antenna of the locate receiver. What that means is even with the best gps equipment, if you don't have the right setup, you will never get any reliability and your gps coordinates will always have a horizontal window of +\- 2'. Likewise with the verticle

    Mke

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    Default Re: How is your truck organized ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mke View Post
    Ehhh... After some looking into it, using the GPS feature with the locator isn't feaseable. Even if you have access to survey quality receivers, there is no way to calibrate the antenna for the GPS to the antenna of the locate receiver. What that means is even with the best gps equipment, if you don't have the right setup, you will never get any reliability and your gps coordinates will always have a horizontal window of +\- 2'. Likewise with the verticle

    Mke
    Have you seen one yet? I just found out about all this gadgetry this last Friday...

  3. #18
    Mke
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    Default Re: How is your truck organized ?

    I've only looked into the one Trimble unit that is mentioned in the Vivax manual. This unit is not a "sub-meter" unit. that means that any information collected is going to have an accuracy range of +/- 7 meters. That unfortunately isn't that accurate. I've also seen smaller units that clip to a pocket or the bill of a hat and their accuracy rating is +/- 14 meters. I actually work with surveyors. My manager is the manager of the survey group so I'm unknowingly picking up basic information about GPS equipment. I was talking to them about the ability of using the locator to collect data from a GPS antenna and the first thing they said was, "you are limited by the varience between the point on the locator that collects the data and the position of the GPS antenna."

    Broken down, what they are stating is that the way they are accurate with the GPS antenna is that their distance from the GPS antenna to the Point at the end of their survey rod is a known distance and does not vary. If we had a fixed GPS antenna attached to the locator, this would help, but you would need an antenna that was taller then you to get a good accurate signal.

    Trimble R8 Model 3 L1 L2 L2C L5 GPS Glonass GNSS Galileo TSC3 Rover Base RTK Set | eBay

    Above is a used Trimble R8 system with base station. As you can see by the price, even used it is F*ing expensive. This doesn't cover any issues with base station set up. You will need known coordinates etc.... etc...

    I think it will eventually get to a point where the surveyors will work closer with the locators.... but it is still quite a ways away.

    mke

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    Member jabajo's Avatar
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    Default Re: How is your truck organized ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mke View Post
    I've only looked into the one Trimble unit that is mentioned in the Vivax manual. This unit is not a "sub-meter" unit. that means that any information collected is going to have an accuracy range of +/- 7 meters. That unfortunately isn't that accurate. I've also seen smaller units that clip to a pocket or the bill of a hat and their accuracy rating is +/- 14 meters. I actually work with surveyors. My manager is the manager of the survey group so I'm unknowingly picking up basic information about GPS equipment. I was talking to them about the ability of using the locator to collect data from a GPS antenna and the first thing they said was, "you are limited by the varience between the point on the locator that collects the data and the position of the GPS antenna."

    Broken down, what they are stating is that the way they are accurate with the GPS antenna is that their distance from the GPS antenna to the Point at the end of their survey rod is a known distance and does not vary. If we had a fixed GPS antenna attached to the locator, this would help, but you would need an antenna that was taller then you to get a good accurate signal.

    Trimble R8 Model 3 L1 L2 L2C L5 GPS Glonass GNSS Galileo TSC3 Rover Base RTK Set | eBay

    Above is a used Trimble R8 system with base station. As you can see by the price, even used it is F*ing expensive. This doesn't cover any issues with base station set up. You will need known coordinates etc.... etc...

    I think it will eventually get to a point where the surveyors will work closer with the locators.... but it is still quite a ways away.

    mke
    Is that the unit the "locator" would send it's coordinates to? All I know is the feller from Ditch Witch down yonder said they are developing an accessory to be able to GIS a locate similar to 'way-point-marking'. IF we had a GIS unit we would need to have a centrally located unit to shoot the lines from, as this is how all the open pit mine engineers do it around here. My company does own the largest and tallest structures in the city so it might work. Long and short of it, my department has to try and stay on the up and up. We are way behind in our CAD drawings in part to a previous employee not wanting change and I'm thinking the GIS is also now starting to pass us by... If ya know what I mean. I've gotta go and spray some paint. Its only 10F out, snowing, and the wind is at 30MPH's...

  5. #20
    Mke
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    Default Re: How is your truck organized ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jabajo View Post
    Is that the unit the "locator" would send it's coordinates to? All I know is the feller from Ditch Witch down yonder said they are developing an accessory to be able to GIS a locate similar to 'way-point-marking'. IF we had a GIS unit we would need to have a centrally located unit to shoot the lines from, as this is how all the open pit mine engineers do it around here. My company does own the largest and tallest structures in the city so it might work. Long and short of it, my department has to try and stay on the up and up. We are way behind in our CAD drawings in part to a previous employee not wanting change and I'm thinking the GIS is also now starting to pass us by... If ya know what I mean. I've gotta go and spray some paint. Its only 10F out, snowing, and the wind is at 30MPH's...
    Actually all the data should be stored on the locator. The GPS unit would be the reciving antenna for the GPS signals. Those signals will be decoded and sent to the locator for storage. I'm not sure how your shop is set up, but I would try to get a survey crew to pick up all newly installed utilities and utilities that are uncovered by any construction. This coupled with active hands on with the GIS maps you should be able to get a collar on it and start whipping it into shape.


    Now with Arcpad you can draw in some line work and make notes for the GIS guys to adjust the mapping in the office. I think this feature would be just about as helpful as the GPS feature to the locating equipment.

    mke

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    Member jabajo's Avatar
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    Default Re: How is your truck organized ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mke View Post
    Actually all the data should be stored on the locator. The GPS unit would be the reciving antenna for the GPS signals. Those signals will be decoded and sent to the locator for storage. I'm not sure how your shop is set up, but I would try to get a survey crew to pick up all newly installed utilities and utilities that are uncovered by any construction. This coupled with active hands on with the GIS maps you should be able to get a collar on it and start whipping it into shape.


    Now with Arcpad you can draw in some line work and make notes for the GIS guys to adjust the mapping in the office. I think this feature would be just about as helpful as the GPS feature to the locating equipment.

    mke

    Thanks Mke, you're full of info and it's greatly appreciated!

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    Default Re: How is your truck organized ?

    Years ago I heard of GPS units on the back of trenching and plow equipment to map newly installed cables and pipe. Would not help with existing buried facility's, but you got to start some where. I know some of the county bulldozers have them on both edges of their blades. Just set the depth and blade angle and go. They also cut a lot of cables that way. Some county crews don't seem to carry shovels with them.
    Last edited by Kramit69; April 1st, 2014 at 11:49 PM.

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    Default Re: How is your truck organized ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kramit69 View Post
    Years ago I heard of GPS units on the back of trenching and plow equipment to map newly installed cables and pipe. Would not help with existing buried facility's, but you got to start some where. I know some of the county bulldozers have them on both edges of their blades. Just set the depth and blade angle and go. They also cut a lot of cables that way. Some county crews don't seem to carry shovels with them.
    Are you kidding? County workers always carry a shovel. It's for show. Any facility not painted red or yellow is a target, and shouldn't be there.
    Kramit69 likes this.

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    Member jabajo's Avatar
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    Default Re: How is your truck organized ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Help View Post
    Are you kidding? County workers always carry a shovel. It's for show. Any facility not painted red or yellow is a target, and shouldn't be there.
    It's not for show... It's to lean on and watch the junior guy do the work!!

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    Default Re: How is your truck organized ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Help View Post
    Are you kidding? County workers always carry a shovel. It's for show. Any facility not painted red or yellow is a target, and shouldn't be there.
    Funny part about that is. I showed up to a locate for county replacing a culvert where the crew was on site. When I pulled up they said they only needed gas because everything else was located. When I started painting orange for the comcast feeder and drop that went over the top of the culvert at a 1 inch depth he was amazed said, "So cable and phone are the same color? I didn't know that.". Keep in mind this was the operator of the track hoe that was ripping out the culvert as I'm marking the lines.

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    Member jabajo's Avatar
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    Default Re: How is your truck organized ?

    Ah yes. Sometimes it is really amazing. Once I marked for an emergency water main break in January. In the middle of the painted dig box I located a 1" 50lbs gas service. I literally just walked back to my truck and I heard "PSSSSSssssssss.....", not only did I show him the mark, he even made a comment about moving the gas line for him and laughed. Worst part, this was an employee with my company that worked on the water distribution....

  12. #27
    Mke
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    Default Re: How is your truck organized ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kramit69 View Post
    Years ago I heard of GPS units on the back of trenching and plow equipment to map newly installed cables and pipe. Would not help with existing buried facility's, but you got to start some where. I know some of the county bulldozers have them on both edges of their blades. Just set the depth and blade angle and go. They also cut a lot of cables that way. Some county crews don't seem to carry shovels with them.
    The way we work things here is when we have any projects on our facilities, it is written into the contract to survey "as-built" utilities. If the contractor has issues with that we send our own survey guys out to survey in any new utilities. We haven't been doing this for ever, but for at least the past 5 years. It's not perfect but its a start.

    mke

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    Default Re: How is your truck organized ?

    I think we got a little off topic. So isn't there some DOT rules about having a cage or something between the driver's compartment and storage area for all your locating crap. If I get in a accident, all that stuff behind me is going to be joining me up front in a big way. I guess it will only hurt for a second, cause that stuff will most likely kill me. 65 MPH to a dead stop. I hope I just didn't open a can of worms on this.

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    Member jabajo's Avatar
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    Default Re: How is your truck organized ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kramit69 View Post
    I think we got a little off topic. So isn't there some DOT rules about having a cage or something between the driver's compartment and storage area for all your locating crap. If I get in a accident, all that stuff behind me is going to be joining me up front in a big way. I guess it will only hurt for a second, cause that stuff will most likely kill me. 65 MPH to a dead stop. I hope I just didn't open a can of worms on this.
    As far as I know we don't have any in MN. The racks are more for show than go. On my company truck I have one that is like expanded steel which is nice because it blocks the sun. The only reason it's on my truck was to mount my beacons and outside speaker to. On my personal truck I have a Pro-Rack and it's nice but I have had friends with the Back-Racks and they barely hit them and bend them up...

  15. #30
    Mke
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    Default Re: How is your truck organized ?

    There is DOT regs about having a barrier between loads and the drivers cabin, but those boxes work around it because they themselves are attatched to the frame of the truck and self enclosed. If you are in an accident that breaks that box loose, the least of your concerns is your equipment popping through the back window.

    mke
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