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Thread: Hand dig distance

  1. #16
    Senior Member FiosKing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand dig distance

    it is not 18" in NJ
    "What Are You Doin!?!? GET THE HELL OFF MY LAWN!"
    you have entered a restricted area

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    Default Re: Hand dig distance

    Quote Originally Posted by animal View Post
    wires are not to be taped to gas mains or services anymore because it could conduct electricity get hot then melt the pipe causing a leak

    the shortest hand dig rule should be 2 feet then plus the size of what ever is marked

    for installs on small pipes that they used a bucket over a foot wide it should be noted on the print and that should also get added to the locate marks for the size of the utility line
    here i go again
    2 foot hand dig rule plus the size of whatever in the trench means 8" pipe add 4" to each side 20" pipe or duct add 10" more to the 2 foot rule so now your up to 34" on each side

    untonable lines that get buried with a locate wire that is just dumped in the trench with the line the record should state what size bucket was used to put that line in the ground
    a friend of mine got stuck in the a$$ with one 2' bucket locate wire was more than 18 away from cable one of (those we are going to stick the locator no matter what casses)

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    Default Re: Hand dig distance

    the problem is with the excavator, they all should own and use a locator to varify the dig site.

    repair work is a costly way to spend the day, the money is in doing a clean job and getting to the next job on time
    You Can't Fix It Till You Find It - Jim 3:23

  4. #19
    Mke
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    Default Re: Hand dig distance

    uhhhh, I beg to disagree. The last thing we need is a excavator with a piece of locating equipment. Out of my 10+ years, I have only seen one excavator that owned a piece of locating equipment that was worth a damn.

    The problem lies in the excavator getting too comfortable with his locator, and not going through the process of requesting utility marks.

    With that being said though, I have seen where it would be advantageous to the excavator, I have seen a number of locators mark the wrong area, or not even show up to locate. I believe that if we could raise the bar for the locators, we wouldn't need to entertain the idea of Locators employed by the Excavator.

    mke

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    Default Re: Hand dig distance

    Quote Originally Posted by Mke View Post
    uhhhh, I beg to disagree. The last thing we need is a excavator with a piece of locating equipment. Out of my 10+ years, I have only seen one excavator that owned a piece of locating equipment that was worth a damn.

    The problem lies in the excavator getting too comfortable with his locator, and not going through the process of requesting utility marks.

    With that being said though, I have seen where it would be advantageous to the excavator, I have seen a number of locators mark the wrong area, or not even show up to locate. I believe that if we could raise the bar for the locators, we wouldn't need to entertain the idea of Locators employed by the Excavator.

    mke
    I agree !!!
    wise men talk because they have something to say and fools because they have to say something....plato

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    Default Re: Hand dig distance

    I worked a road project last year where the excavator had good equipment. After I marked the dig site, They would watch me locate and re-hook to everything I did to check depths. I was uncomfortable at first, but they did good work and took responsibility when they were wrong. They were seldom wrong with good equipment. By the end of the project I have to say I was impressed. I do realize the dangers of these circumstances, but with the pressure We all feel in the field it was nice not to be called with the "We cant find it and we are 3' down and 3' wide". They were intelligent enough to connect and find out they needed to keep digging. Saved me and my company plenty of time and money. Sooo I have to say, If that contractor wants to re-check my marks, more power to ya. I will mark it rite every time.

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Hand dig distance

    Quote Originally Posted by Mke View Post
    uhhhh, I beg to disagree. The last thing we need is a excavator with a piece of locating equipment. Out of my 10+ years, I have only seen one excavator that owned a piece of locating equipment that was worth a damn.

    The problem lies in the excavator getting too comfortable with his locator, and not going through the process of requesting utility marks.

    With that being said though, I have seen where it would be advantageous to the excavator, I have seen a number of locators mark the wrong area, or not even show up to locate. I believe that if we could raise the bar for the locators, we wouldn't need to entertain the idea of Locators employed by the Excavator.

    mke
    Three things;

    First I agree. The excavators I have worked with have often asked what it would cost to get first rate locating equipment. Now they are willing to put out $100,000 or more for a truck, trailer and excavator but balk at the price of good locating equipment.

    Second - excavators doing their own locating is mostly an academic discussion. The call before you dig laws puts the responsibility on marking on the owners of the utility. Excavators by law cannot dig on their own marks with only a few exceptions.

    Third - As for the subject of this thread, Hand Dig Distance, this too must be mandated by law. It must be a safe distance and universally applied to all situations. It cannot be complicated where the excavator has to do math or know exactly whose utility they are digging on. It must be X number of inches from all marks to be practical and workable.

  8. #23
    Mke
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    Default Re: Hand dig distance

    Laws smaws......... Its only breaking the law if you get caught. If you don't believe there are excavators out there hiring private locators to work around the One-call laws think again. When I was a private locator, we were constantly getting calls from companies to preform locates that they "didn't have time" to call for locates.

    mke

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    Default Re: Hand dig distance

    Quote Originally Posted by yahoo View Post
    I agree !!!
    i agree about the bar, i use a 573DL on all my digs to check the paint, if i don't agree with the marks i don't dig.

    i use a catv locator for the hole, i dig to the mark unless i here something spooky.

    it's not about skipping steps or not obeying dig laws, the majority of my excavation is in congested area's and the locator comes in handy, like i said before in 10+ yrs no damage claims.

    that's gotta count for something
    You Can't Fix It Till You Find It - Jim 3:23

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    Senior Member 1idejim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand dig distance

    Quote Originally Posted by ProfessionalLocator View Post
    Three things;

    First I agree. The excavators I have worked with have often asked what it would cost to get first rate locating equipment. Now they are willing to put out $100,000 or more for a truck, trailer and excavator but balk at the price of good locating equipment.

    Second - excavators doing their own locating is mostly an academic discussion. The call before you dig laws puts the responsibility on marking on the owners of the utility. Excavators by law cannot dig on their own marks with only a few exceptions.

    Third - As for the subject of this thread, Hand Dig Distance, this too must be mandated by law. It must be a safe distance and universally applied to all situations. It cannot be complicated where the excavator has to do math or know exactly whose utility they are digging on. It must be X number of inches from all marks to be practical and workable.
    (1) $100,000 is what the truck costs try $300,00-500.000

    (2) law is the law and i'm not recommending that it be ignored

    (3) see above
    You Can't Fix It Till You Find It - Jim 3:23

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Hand dig distance

    Quote Originally Posted by fockerson View Post
    I worked a road project last year where the excavator had good equipment. After I marked the dig site, They would watch me locate and re-hook to everything I did to check depths. I was uncomfortable at first, but they did good work and took responsibility when they were wrong. They were seldom wrong with good equipment. By the end of the project I have to say I was impressed. I do realize the dangers of these circumstances, but with the pressure We all feel in the field it was nice not to be called with the "We cant find it and we are 3' down and 3' wide". They were intelligent enough to connect and find out they needed to keep digging. Saved me and my company plenty of time and money. Sooo I have to say, If that contractor wants to re-check my marks, more power to ya. I will mark it rite every time.
    and this is what i'm getting at, but these guys are the exception not the rule
    You Can't Fix It Till You Find It - Jim 3:23

  12. #27
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    Default Re: Hand dig distance

    Quote Originally Posted by 1idejim View Post
    (1) $100,000 is what the truck costs try $300,00-500.000

    (2) law is the law and i'm not recommending that it be ignored

    (3) see above
    I am not saying a vac truck or directional bore rig, just an old f350, trailer and old backhoe.

    Get all new and you get very expensive. But still these firms balk at spending just a couple of thousand on some decent locating equipment, go figure.

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    Default Re: Hand dig distance

    Money pushes us all around too much. If it was care that pushed us there would be far less dig-ins'. Whose to blame? It costs big money for a sewer contractor to wait around looking for something. But, if they had locating equipment and somebody competant enough to locate, their equipment would pay itself off in no time. Probably only in one saved damage. Downtime to any contractor is expensive. That is part of what drives me to get the marks in the right place by start time everytime. I dont want the finger pointed at me(specially the middle one).

  14. #29
    Senior Member ProfessionalLocator's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand dig distance

    Quote Originally Posted by Mke View Post
    Laws smaws......... Its only breaking the law if you get caught. If you don't believe there are excavators out there hiring private locators to work around the One-call laws think again. When I was a private locator, we were constantly getting calls from companies to preform locates that they "didn't have time" to call for locates.

    mke
    Caught doing it or not is was breaking the law.

    I do know that some of these "private locates" are ordered not becasue they did not want to wait for legal call before you dig tickets. It is because some of the firms are not licensed and insured or they did not get required work permits for the job they were doing.

    Some jurisdictions search the call before you tickets looking for unlicensed firms doing business so they can be fined and shut down. Some jurisdictions search the jobs in the tickets to see if they have pulled the permits that are required so they can issue stop work orders and put fines on the firms.

  15. #30
    Senior Member 1idejim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hand dig distance

    i'm pouring concrete with no excavation, non structural, no permit required, where's the septic tank at? the truck is going to be backing into the backyard, locating the tank is my problem.

    digging pool in the backyard, usa to the house, from the street. how about the private propane line. previous owner installed tennis court with lights, detached garage with underground power.

    this can go on and on and on.

    i am able to do my own onsite and the locator helps my jobs go by smoother and safer and with less chance of damage due to it.

    i feel that the costs of my machines have been justified many, many times
    You Can't Fix It Till You Find It - Jim 3:23

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