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Thread: ELM Pay Reduction

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    Default ELM Pay Reduction

    Has anyone heard this? I heard a 10% paycut across the board.

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    Default Re: ELM Pay Reduction

    Yes It is true and they will never see that 10% be reinstated I am sure the guys at the top are laughing all the way to the bank

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    Default Re: ELM Pay Reduction

    What is the reasoning behind this? Normally they cut the dead weight before it comes to this, and I KNOW there is dead weight out there.
    "Change does not always equal progress."

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    Default Re: ELM Pay Reduction

    Quote Originally Posted by Locatingart View Post
    Yes It is true and they will never see that 10% be reinstated I am sure the guys at the top are laughing all the way to the bank
    And with the end of the first quarter next month do not be surprised to be told productivity needs to be higher.

    I have observed in other firms that employees need that pay check. When big cuts are made they reduce productivity and increase overtime just to keep the rent paid and not end up on the streets.

    The other down side of an across the board pay cut is that it makes your best, most profitable employees vulnerable to recruitment by other firms.

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    Default Re: ELM Pay Reduction

    Buttom line is all Company have so much power in there hands when it comes to employees The job market is in they favor. We as locators do not have allot of choices right now but to be at the mercy of our Company. So when they say jump you ask how high Sir. Be thankful you have a Job
    Last edited by Locatingart; February 15th, 2010 at 04:26 PM.

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    Default Re: ELM Pay Reduction

    Is ELM expecting production to be maintained?

    People don't get paid because a company is so good hearted that they are doing you a favor. People get paid as a barter or a trade. The trade is labor for money. The deal is that I will come work for you/your company in return for a set amount of money. That is called an even trade. Or, some might call it a contract. I certainly would. Whether it is written down or not, it is still a deal.

    Now that the company is coming around and saying that they will no longer honor their end of the deal by cutting back on the money traded for labor, is it possible that the employee will say (to themselves) well, they want to pay me less, so I will give them less labor in return? Sure. I don't see why not.

    If I spent a dollar (a round number) a day at a coffee shop and then one day I decided to pay only 90 cents per cup then they would most certainly argue that they only need to serve me 90% of what they used to serve me. No company in the world would accept 10% less money and still give me 100% of the product.

    Seems only fair to cut the dead weight so they could honor their contract with their hard workers by maintaining full pay.
    Last edited by TheCableVine; February 15th, 2010 at 06:30 PM.
    "Change does not always equal progress."

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    Default Re: ELM Pay Reduction

    They already fired ROB!

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    Default Re: ELM Pay Reduction

    Quote Originally Posted by boblocates View Post
    They already fired ROB!
    They aren't finished yet.
    "Change does not always equal progress."

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    Default Re: ELM Pay Reduction

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCableVine View Post
    Is ELM expecting production to be maintained?

    People don't get paid because a company is so good hearted that they are doing you a favor. People get paid as a barter or a trade. The trade is labor for money. The deal is that I will come work for you/your company in return for a set amount of money. That is called an even trade. Or, some might call it a contract. I certainly would. Whether it is written down or not, it is still a deal.

    Now that the company is coming around and saying that they will no longer honor their end of the deal by cutting back on the money traded for labor, is it possible that the employee will say (to themselves) well, they want to pay me less, so I will give them less labor in return? Sure. I don't see why not.

    If I spent a dollar (a round number) a day at a coffee shop and then one day I decided to pay only 90 cents per cup then they would most certainly argue that they only need to serve me 90% of what they used to serve me. No company in the world would accept 10% less money and still give me 100% of the product.

    Seems only fair to cut the dead weight so they could honor their contract with their hard workers by maintaining full pay.
    If you would take a look at Wall Street, Fat Cat CEO's and The Big Banks the word fair does not come to mind. We are to work to help raise our families which in turns builds our communities. There was a time we look out for each other. Those times are long gone.

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    Default Re: ELM Pay Reduction

    It's a good ploy to run off all the higher paid, talented locators...replacing them with new locators.


    It's not all ELM's fault (stupid move), the utility companies need to take credit for not paying for damage prevention. Ever notice that the companies that pay the least for damage prevention are making money hand over FIST!

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    Default Re: ELM Pay Reduction

    Quote Originally Posted by boblocates View Post
    It's a good ploy to run off all the higher paid, talented locators...replacing them with new locators.


    It's not all ELM's fault (stupid move), the utility companies need to take credit for not paying for damage prevention. Ever notice that the companies that pay the least for damage prevention are making money hand over FIST!
    This is a first choice for many firms becasue they start right off keeping more money before the experienced and capable locators are gone.

    The next thing is to get rid of the experienced and capable locators that did not see the writing on the wall and leave.

    What is done is restrict the locators to a 40 hour work week, no overtime. Then transfer workload from the nooibes to the experienced locators. They now have too much work over too large an area to complete in 40 hours. They either cut corners and end up damaging out or they work off the clock to do the job right. I have seen this done first hand.

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    Default Re: ELM Pay Reduction

    The article below is from the ELM website so I imagine that the locators nationwide did not all get a 10% pay gut. At least not the ones in the states below where ELM credits their good work as a major factor in renewing contracts.




    11/2/2009 11:52:20 AM

    ELM Locating is pleased to announce the renewal of two major contracts encompassing six states in the western United States. These contracts are with natural gas utility providers that have been ELM customers since 2000. “These are particularly rewarding contracts”, said Jim Bourazak, CEO, “because these two utilities in particular recognize the value of high-quality service providers, and evaluated the total cost of ownership when comparing proposals.” Congratulations to all of our technicians and managers in these markets on their quality service that leads to contract renewal.

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    Default Re: ELM Pay Reduction

    I'm interested to see where this goes.

    I also heard a rumor that they renegotiated a contract with Qwest. They lost a bit in the contract and then agreed to put flags every 10 feet or something like that. Now they are getting nickel and dimed to death on the flags. Maybe they figure the employees can foot the bill for the flags.
    Last edited by TheCableVine; February 15th, 2010 at 10:41 PM.
    "Change does not always equal progress."

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    Default Re: ELM Pay Reduction

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCableVine View Post
    I'm interested to see where this goes.

    I also heard a rumor that they renegotiated a contract with Qwest. They lost a bit in the contract and then agreed to put flags every 10 feet or something like that. Now they are getting nickel and dimed to death on the flags. Maybe they figure the employees can foot the bill for the flags.
    Flags are an interesting part of our business but do not universally apply to all situations. The real problem is that the decision to use the flags are often left to people up the ladder who do not know what they are really doing when it comes to field work.

    The flags with plastic shafts are often not workable. The ground is frozen or too hard and they can not be planted into the ground. To use them you often have to pound a hole in the ground and then insert the flag in the hole. The time required to do this is prohibitive.

    The flags with metal shafts are far more practical and I have even thrown them into the ground and they stick and stay in place very well. The problem with metal flags is the danger they present when lawnmowers are used. Hit by a mower they can be discharged as a missile and puncture someone's eye and present a big liability. I have heard of this happening and one firm getting sued and lost the case. I do not know which state this was in but if anybody has heard of this please post it and maybe I can research it.

    In may residential yard locates flags are really not needed and in addition to mowers there is the problem of children. They like to pull the flags out and play with them. Let a kid wound another or injure themselves where flags are put into the yard just becasue someone thinks it is a great idea and expect to lose that lawsuit.

    Flags are simply not needed in all circumstances. Still someone in an office thinks that if there are always flags the excavators will see things better and not hit the utility. I have found flags have never made a difference to the excavator except in bare dirt like a construction site. On peoples lawns the flags are just not needed except for snow and leafs during the fall.

    If such a case as the flag shaft in the eye can be documented perhaps the prospect of liability will reduce the unnecessary use of them. Perhaps I should start a separate thread for this.

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    Default Re: ELM Pay Reduction

    When there is a major cut of pay like this there can be many reasons and certainly the economy can be one of the.

    With less construction, from homeowners to developers,ticket load is down in many / most areas.

    There is a big problem in this industry with a lack of trust.

    The management often does not trust the locators and also regards them as unskilled labor.

    The employees (locators in this case) do not trust management which they often consider both incompetent and incapable of telling the truth. In addition they think, rightly or wrong, that the top bosses mismanaged the company which is the cause of the low profits and that they took no pay cuts.

    Management must remember that the locators have a built in system of pay cuts and termination for the locators without general pay cuts. Locators who have low productivity and a higher damage rate have already paid the price of their shortcomings up to and including termination. Therefore when a general pay or benefits cuts comes along they consider that they have already paid their share and that now they are paying the costs of their bosses mistakes, which the bosses are not paying for.

    Pay cuts across the board or new ways to cut individual pay will never be accepted. Also all explanations of why they have to have these new cuts on top of the cuts they have already paid will only worsen morale and strengthen the distrust of management.

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