Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 43
Like Tree1Likes

Thread: Twenty children dead...

  1. #16
    Premium Member daman1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Off the deep end
    Posts
    1,121
    Years of Experience
    17 years
    Rep Power
    53

    Default Re: Twenty children dead...

    Quote Originally Posted by UULC View Post
    If they would only allow teachers with CWP's to carry on school ground. This Gun Free Zone does NOT work when the criminals don't follow the laws.
    Ever notice it's the gun free zones that seem to keep getting hit? ie. movies, schools, churches, malls? It's weird that these things only started happening in just the last 20 years. I don't remember any before about 92/93. I wonder if it has to do with the 24 hour news channels which started not too much earlier. What scares me is thinking about the guy who was just about to go on a rampage but now has to rethink his plan so he can one-up the guy in Connecticut.

  2. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    wisconsin
    Posts
    815
    Years of Experience
    11.75 yrs
    Rep Power
    40

    Default Re: Twenty children dead...

    They arrested a guy in Beloit , WI who dressed up in camouflage and went up and tested the doors at a local elementary school. There is a small rural town in TX called Harold. They have certain teachers carry concealed weapons. I guess they are trained and such. when questioned about it the principal or superintendent stated "we are the first responders" If anything happened it will take 3-6 minutes before someone can get here.

  3. #18
    Senior Member UULC's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,117
    Years of Experience
    30+
    Rep Power
    57

    Default Re: Twenty children dead...

    Here is the article for the Texas town that allows teachers to carry guns.

    Texas Town Allows Teachers to Carry Concealed Guns - News - LawOfficer.com

  4. #19
    Senior Member Wingfoot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Kansas City, Missouri
    Posts
    4,401
    Years of Experience
    20
    Rep Power
    189

    Default Re: Twenty children dead...

    Quote Originally Posted by locatethis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ifinditunderground View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by daman1 View Post
    I read this in an article about a month ago:

    "Think about it. You and someone have an opposing view and you argue.

    When I think back to just about every argument I've ever participated in — political arguments, religious arguments, arguments with my wife, with my children, my parents, or my employees, arguments about the news or about a business idea or about an article or a way of doing something — in the end, each person leaves the argument feeling, in many cases more strongly than before, that he or she was right to begin with.

    Arguing achieves a predictable outcome: it solidifies each person's stance. Which, of course, is the exact opposite of what you're trying to achieve with the argument in the first place. It also wastes time and deteriorates relationships.
    There's only one solution: stop arguing".
    Locatethis, meet Wingfoot, our member conspiracy theorist. Wingfoot, meet Locatethis, he's new around here.
    Ifindit; I'm not that new, and I realize Wingfoot has a flare for the overstatements! All I wanted to do was to make a very simple statement, not start the debate...
    Hey daman - I have learned through the years arguing a point with a skeptic gets me nowhere. Jesus said it best when he was quoted in Mathew 7:6 during His Sermon on the Mount, "Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces."

    I have learned political arguments, religious arguments, arguments with my wife, with my children, my parents, my fellow employees or my boss is casting my pearls before swine. I won't get into an argument for argument's sake. I will challenge ignorance but I refuse to argue with an idiot. Mark Twain wrote, “Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

    Ignorance can be changed with the discriminating mind (critical thinker). An idiot is close-minded and refuses to accept view points opposing their perception of truth.

    A close-minded person believes the Federal Reserve Bank is federal, Lee Harvey Oswald was a lone gunman, James Earl Ray shot Martin Luther King, man walked on the moon, the streaks across the skies that linger for days are just vapor trails of cross-country commercial jets, only God can control weather, climate change is real, oil is non-renewable, cancer is a death-sentence, AMA doctors care about a person's health, the free press is free and would never be used as a propaganda tool by our government, the American press is truthful about those who are our allies and those who are our enemies, Big Brother is not watching us, Bill Clinton smoked weed but never inhaled, there is a difference between Democrats and Republicans, jet fuel can melt steel girders and bring down skyscrapers at free-fall speeds inside plumes of pulverized concrete, and politicians may be crooks and liars but would never do anything to hurt our Country. Any person challenging these points with a close-minded person is "casting pearls before swine" and an argument is sure to begin quickly.

    A critical thinker wonders if everything he's been told or understood his entire life has been a lie. A critical thinker will listen to the "overstatements" of a person like Wingfoot and wonder, "Can that be truth or Bullshit?" Can Wingfoot back-up his claims? On the flip side, can a close-minded person back-up his claims?............ just sayin'.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

  5. #20
    Conservative Meanie ifinditunderground's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
    Posts
    1,808
    Years of Experience
    20
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    93

    Default Re: Twenty children dead...

    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Mental Illness."
    "America isn't free, in America you are free to follow the rules." -Anthony Cumia


  6. #21
    Senior Member UULC's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,117
    Years of Experience
    30+
    Rep Power
    57

    Default Re: Twenty children dead...

    AMEN Wing.....

  7. #22
    Mke
    Mke is offline
    Senior Member Mke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Republic of Washington
    Posts
    1,536
    Years of Experience
    16
    Blog Entries
    34
    Rep Power
    77

    Default Re: Twenty children dead...

    Wing, Let me start this by stating I loved your post, and it was very true. Unfortunately, the contrarian in me has to throw out Occam's Razor. I know that is the closed minded persons back up arguement but typically it holds merrit. The trick to communicating is makeing sure both sides are heard and not easily dissmissed. I think that critical thinking is needed and unfortunately extremely lacking in society today.

    As for Daman's post.... Arguing shouldn't be the goal, discussing should be. If one or the other side is taking the discussion to a part where there is a dismissal of any one side, there is where it should end. If both sides can be cordial an understand the importance of hearing each other out, maybe they can find some wisdom in what each other is saying.

    mke

  8. #23
    Premium Member daman1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Off the deep end
    Posts
    1,121
    Years of Experience
    17 years
    Rep Power
    53

    Default Re: Twenty children dead...

    Hey Wing, My post on arguing was meant for any one wanting to turn this into a gun control argument. I didn't intend for you to think I was attacking your post (which is a very interesting spin I haven't heard elsewhere). The Connecticut shooter really bothered me and I started to comment on it here a few times but I wasn't able to express anything words could convey. I think locatethis (and correct me if I'm wrong LT) had the same problem and finally just posted a fallen angel. He wasn't trying to start a debate and when it started to look like one was coming he expressed his regret. That's why I posted what I did about arguing. It was kind of a preemptive attempt to keep it from turning into that. Not a judgment of you. You have some of the most thought provoking posts on this forum and it would be a lot more boring around here without you.
    I've learned that if people are conspiring, as people always do, then a conspiracy theory isn't necessarily bad. Very few things in this world happen by pure coincidence(ie WTC 1,2, and 7). I also know that if people actually ARE trying to get you then paranoia is healthy and normal. Dismissing or demonizing an idea by labeling it a conspiracy theory is a tool used to keep them under the radar. I never meant to dismiss you that way and I sincerely apologize if that's how I came across.
    Sometimes being the devil's advocate will bring the flaws out in my own thinking. Arguing IS pointless but open minded discussion is necessary if the goal is to get to the root of an issue and actually fix a problem. Too many people are more interested in winning the debate than finding a solution. I don't like or want to be one of those types. Closed minded people are predictable and too easily manipulated.
    Yahoo's reply to LT was spot on. I think I lean most toward Mke in my views about this subject. The media abusing their 1st amendment rights for ratings are perpetuating the problem much more than those exercising the 2nd amendment. Neither goes to the root of the problem though and your original post, right or wrong, attempts to do that. The only thing I know for sure is that from my lowly position in this world, I probably truly understand very little. When you're just one little pixel on the TV screen, how can you possibly hope to see the big picture?

  9. #24
    Senior Member Wingfoot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Kansas City, Missouri
    Posts
    4,401
    Years of Experience
    20
    Rep Power
    189

    Default Re: Twenty children dead...

    Quote Originally Posted by daman1 View Post
    Hey Wing, My post on arguing was meant for any one wanting to turn this into a gun control argument. I didn't intend for you to think I was attacking your post. The only thing I know for sure is that from my lowly position in this world, I probably truly understand very little. When you're just one little pixel on the TV screen, how can you possibly hope to see the big picture?
    Hey daman - I accept your apology, but seriously, no apology is needed. I never took your post as an attack. I'm probably the thickest skinned member on the'Vine. Luv Ya Man!

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

  10. #25
    Senior Member Wingfoot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Kansas City, Missouri
    Posts
    4,401
    Years of Experience
    20
    Rep Power
    189

    Default Re: Twenty children dead...



    Darrell Scott

    On 27 May 1999 - a month after the massacre at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, in which two students shot 13 other students to death and wounded another 25 - the House Judiciary Committee's subcommitte on crime held hearings on "Pending Firearms Legislation and the Administration's Enforcement of Current Gun Laws." Among those who made or presented statements to the subcommittee that day was Darrell Scott, the father of two victims of the Columbine High School shootings (one of whom, his daughter Rachel Joy Scott, was killed).


    Rachel Joy Scott

    The following is a portion of the transcript:

    "Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers.

    "The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used.. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart.

    "In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe that they are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent

    I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy -- it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best.


    "Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, mind, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and wreak havoc. Spiritual presence were present within our educational systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs -- politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws. Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts.

    "As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes, he did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge every young person in America , and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA -- I give to you a sincere challenge.. Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first stone!

    My daughter's death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!"

    - Darrell Scott

    --------------------------------------------------------------

  11. #26
    Senior Member GPGrasshopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    318
    Rep Power
    21

    Default Re: Twenty children dead...

    The bigger issue is not the gun itself. The gun is just a tool, and in and of itself is no different than a revolver or even a knife. The bigger problem is the moral degradation of our society and the metal health of people that have not received proper treatment. What have we become, when since 2000, the death toll from mass shootings is greater than the total death toll from similar incidents in the country’s entire history? Obviously, we are doing something wrong! Just my two cents…
    I seek not to know the answers, but to understand the questions.

  12. #27
    Senior Member Wingfoot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Kansas City, Missouri
    Posts
    4,401
    Years of Experience
    20
    Rep Power
    189

    Default Re: Twenty children dead...


    My brother-in-law went to a Kansas City gun show Saturday, December 22. He has frequented as many shows in the area as possible since Barry took office and this was the first gun show in town since Sandy Hook. My brother-in-law called me from the show just to let me know the show was packed (more people than he's ever seen at a gun show!) and most were buying. There were no hot deals. Everything was MSRP and up.


    He told me he paid $10.00 apiece for his two 30-round clips for his AR-15 last year. One of the booths had two 30-round AR-15 clips displayed @ $100.00 each. The dealer said he started the show with five of these clips and he sold three already. Thirty minutes later the remaining two clips were gone.


    AR-15 - Sandy Hook shooter Adam Lanza's Weapon of Choice

    The AR-15 rifles sold last year at $400.00 each at the show. Within the first hour of the December show there were hardly any AR-15s left and most were sold @ $1,500 or more each! I guess there is concern of law-abiding, Kansas City citizens that there will be a knee-jerk reaction by politicians, including U.S. President Barry Soetoro, to call for a ban on assault weapons and ammunition clips that allow the rapid firing of multiple bullets. I can't fault gun dealers to price their rifles, pistols & clips based on supply and demand..........

    --------------------------------------------------------------

  13. #28
    Administrator TheCableVine's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    2,943
    Years of Experience
    16
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    134

    Default Re: Twenty children dead...

    You keep hearing that the AR-15 was Adam Lanzas weapon of choice but the fact is that the AR-15 was found in the trunk of his car. He used two handguns for his spree, not the Ar-15.

    Way to drop the ball on that one Mainstream Media.
    "Change does not always equal progress."

  14. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    wisconsin
    Posts
    815
    Years of Experience
    11.75 yrs
    Rep Power
    40

    Default Re: Twenty children dead...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCableVine View Post
    You keep hearing that the AR-15 was Adam Lanzas weapon of choice but the fact is that the AR-15 was found in the trunk of his car. He used two handguns for his spree, not the Ar-15.

    Way to drop the ball on that one Mainstream Media.
    The first reports i heard were that the assault rifle was left in the trunk and it was only hand guns. I also have read that only a shotgun was left in the trunk of the car. He used the bushmaster .223 to shoot out the glass doors and all the children were shot with the AR-15. He was found with more clips on him, but with authorities closing in he used either the glock or the sig to shoot himself.

  15. #30
    Senior Member Wingfoot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Kansas City, Missouri
    Posts
    4,401
    Years of Experience
    20
    Rep Power
    189

    Default Re: Twenty children dead...




    DRUGS, KIDS & GUNS

    By Ralph Lopez

    Psychiatrists have come forward to assert that certain psychiatric medications, such as those known as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), are almost certainly the chemical cause of a high number of instances of random violence and suicide in which SSRIs have been present.

    The research challenges the pharmaceutical industry’s defense that the high correlation between random violence and the presence of these medications is due to the mental illness itself, not the drugs being prescribed for the illness. Other critics of the industry claim that drugs tend to be too aggressively marketed and over-prescribed.

    The media has reported that the suspected shooter in the Sandy Hook multiple killings, Adam Lanza, was possibly on some form of psychiatric medication, perhaps related to a reported diagnosis of a form of autism, a developmental disorder that affects social and communication skills. Authorities have yet to make a statement on what, if any, psychiatric medications Lanza was on or had been on in the past. The SSRI with the brand name Prozac is sometimes prescribed for autism.

    Answering the pharmaceutical industry’s defense, in testimony before the House Committee on Veterans Affairs in February 2010, Dr. Peter Breggin, founder of the International Center for the Study of Psychiatry and Psychology, told the committee that the causative links between violent incidents and the drugs in question had already been established by the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

    “The pharmaceutical industry has attempted to discredit case reports as evidence for causation,” Breggin told the committee. “However, case reports have led to most FDA changes in labels and to most withdrawals of psychiatric drugs from the market, and are a mainstay in the FDA for evaluating adverse drug reactions.

    “There is overwhelming evidence that the SSRIs and other stimulating antidepressants cause suicidal tendencies and aggression in children and adults of all ages,” he added.

    Dr. David Healy, a British psychiatrist and author of the book Pharmageddon, said in November 2012, “Violence and other potentially criminal behavior caused by prescription drugs are medicine’s best kept secret.”

    Dr. Gary G. Kohls, in an article entitled “Batman Shooter and His Psyche [sic] Drugs” published in Evergreene Digest, lists at least 40 cases of violent crimes or suicides committed by mostly young people whose medical history revealed the presence of psychiatric drugs, mostly SSRIs. A partial list of cases follows:

    • Eric Harris, 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox), and Dylan Klebold, 18, killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves at Columbine high school in Littleton, Colorado on April 20, 1999. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.

    • Jeff Weise, 16, had been prescribed 60 mg per day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota on March 21, 2005 before he shot himself. In the end, 10 were dead and 12 wounded.

    • Cory Baadsgaard, 16, was on Paxil, which caused him to have hallucinations, when he took a rifle to Wahluke High School in Washington state and held 23 classmates hostage on April 15, 2001. He claims to have no memory of the event.

    • On November 28, 2001, Christopher Pittman, 12, murdered both his grandparents while on Zoloft.

    • On September 23, 1995, Jarred Viktor, 15, stabbed his grandmother 61 times after taking Paxil for five days.

    • On May 21, 1998, Kip Kinkel, 15 (on Prozac and Ritalin), shot his parents while they slept, then went to school and opened fire, killing two classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

    • On October 1, 1997, Luke Woodham, 16 and on Prozac, killed his mother and then went to Pearl High School in Pearl, Mississippi, where he killed two students and wounded six others.

    • On December 1, 1997, Michael Carneal, 14 and on Ritalin, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed and five others wounded.

    • On March 24, 1998, Andrew Golden, 11 and on Ritalin, and Mitchell Johnson, 14 and on Ritalin, went to Westside Middle School in Craighead County, Arkansas and shot 15 people, killing four students and one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

    • On May 20, 1999, at Heritage High School in Conyers, Georgia, Thomas Solomon Jr., 15 and on Ritalin, opened fire on his classmates, wounding six students.

    • On September 26, 1988, James Wilson, 19 and on various psychiatric drugs, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school in Breenwood, South Carolina and killed two young girls and wounded seven other children and two teachers.

    • On March 7, 2001, Elizabeth Bush, 13 and on Paxil, shot a fellow student in the cafeteria at Bishop Neumann Junior-Senior High School in Williamsport, Pennsylvania.

    • On March 22, 2001, Jason Hoffman, 18 and on Effexor and Celexa, opened fire on classmates and staff at Granite Hills High School in El Cajon, California, injuring five people.

    • On March 10, 1998, in Huntsville, Alabama, Jeff Franklin, 17 and on Prozac and Ritalin, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic’s file, then brutally attacked his younger brothers and sister.

    • On April 26, 1996, Kurt Danysh, 18 and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now in prison and writes letters trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

    • On February 5, 2010, Hammad Memon, 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student at Discovery Middle School in Huntsville, Alabama. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and other drugs for the medical conditions.

    • On September 23, 2008, Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student at Seinäjoki University of Applied Sciences in Western Finland, shot and killed nine students and a teacher, and wounded another student before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

    • On February 14, 2008, Steven Kazmierczak, 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself at Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, Illinois. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

    • On November 7, 2007, Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, 18 and on antidepressants, killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School, before committing suicide.

    • On October 10, 2007, Asa Coon, 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life at the SuccessTech alternative high school in Cleveland,
    Ohio. Court records show Coon was on trazodone.

    • On February 9, 2004, Jon Romano, 16 and on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at his teacher in Columbia High School in East Greenbush, New York.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •