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    Senior Member superman's Avatar
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    Default Who's stressed out?

    Sir, how can you be stressed out? All you do is ride around in an air conditioned truck.
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    Default Re: Who's stressed out?

    Me favorite is "where can I get a job waving that wand around?"
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    Senior Member yahoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's stressed out?

    stressed out starts early in the morning and ends as I go to sleep .....
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    wise men talk because they have something to say and fools because they have to say something....plato

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    Default Re: Who's stressed out?

    Quote Originally Posted by orangeboots View Post
    Me favorite is "where can I get a job waving that wand around?"
    My favorite is ' my son needs to find something easy. Are you guys hiring?'
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    Default Re: Who's stressed out?

    Quote Originally Posted by superman View Post
    Sir, how can you be stressed out? All you do is ride around in an air conditioned truck.
    That why my locates are always late? And seriously, what is with locators spending VAST amounts of time just sitting in their trucks? I mean, I know you get breaks and a lunch - mandated by the government - but not a 15 minute break before and after each locate.





    edit: Serious post.

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    Premium Member daman1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's stressed out?

    Quote Originally Posted by jayc View Post
    That why my locates are always late? And seriously, what is with locators spending VAST amounts of time just sitting in their trucks? I mean, I know you get breaks and a lunch - mandated by the government - but not a 15 minute break before and after each locate.


    edit: Serious post.

    That break before a locate is a lot of print reading. 4way locates take a lot of prints. Especially in congested areas with the shite prints that telecom companies give you. The break after the locate is logging the work and downloading pics. All the CYA stuff they force you to do adds up to more time than you think. I usually never take an actual sit and do nothing break. Lunch is eaten while driving to the next job.
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    Senior Member UULC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's stressed out?

    Quote Originally Posted by daman1 View Post
    That break before a locate is a lot of print reading. 4way locates take a lot of prints. Especially in congested areas with the shite prints that telecom companies give you. The break after the locate is logging the work and downloading pics. All the CYA stuff they force you to do adds up to more time than you think. I usually never take an actual sit and do nothing break. Lunch is eaten while driving to the next job.
    Daman1 hit it on the head. On a project job or more then 1 address I take between 75 to 200 pictures. That way if Jayc hits it I have a photo of the location of the damage. To upload them pictures can take up a lot of time if the server has a lot of usage.

    In all seriousness Jayc, there are some who will "screw the pooch" and sit there and do nothing. While everything is working you are looking up the next print/prints for the next location.
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    Mke
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    Default Re: Who's stressed out?

    Daman and UULC has nailed it.

    On a side note, i've always located slightly different then other locators. My Trainer (Swagman) was a, "bull by the horns" type of guy and taught me when I get to a site, I don't "F" around. I get out and grab my equipment (the one that finds utilities) and start locating. Maps are to clairfy the signal you are getting or fill in any gaps that locating can't find. Yes, this may result in a second run and spraying paint, but I find it a little easier to locate first so you kinda have a knowledge of where certian utilities are before you start looking at the maps. I've seen more locators get "Lost" on a print because they have nothing familiar to off of. Locating first gets you this familiarity with the site which typically helps you understand the prints a little bit quicker. And yes, I performed this way even doing 4-5 way locates. Hell, I even did this when doing privates. This helps you rely on your locating more then the prints. However, it does not negate the need for prints. Prints, due to their questionable information, need to be referenced but not blindly followed.

    sorry for the off topic tangent.

    mke
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    Administrator TheCableVine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's stressed out?

    JayC you are not alone. Homeowners do the same thing. I'll pull up and sit in front of their home while checking prints and reading and understanding the locate instructions. The HO will sometimes come out and ask if they can help me with something. Not often, but it happens.
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    "Change does not always equal progress."

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    Default Re: Who's stressed out?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCableVine View Post
    JayC you are not alone. Homeowners do the same thing. I'll pull up and sit in front of their home while checking prints and reading and understanding the locate instructions. The HO will sometimes come out and ask if they can help me with something. Not often, but it happens.
    Lost track of how many times a resident has called the police.
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    Senior Member Wingfoot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's stressed out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mke View Post
    I've always located slightly different then other locators. My Trainer (Swagman) was a, "bull by the horns" type of guy and taught me when I get to a site, I don't "F" around. I get out and grab my equipment (the one that finds utilities) and start locating. Maps are to clarify the signal you are getting or fill in any gaps that locating can't find. Yes, this may result in a second run and spraying paint, but I find it a little easier to locate first so you kinda have a knowledge of where certain utilities are before you start looking at the maps. I've seen more locators get "Lost" on a print because they have nothing familiar [as reference points]. Locating first gets you this familiarity with the site which typically helps you understand the prints a little bit quicker. And yes, I performed this way even doing 4-5 way locates. Hell, I even did this when doing privates. This helps you rely on your locating more then the prints. However, it does not negate the need for prints. Prints, due to their questionable information, need to be referenced but not blindly followed.

    mke
    Greetings mke! With no disrespect, I respectively disagree with your handling of prints.

    I can not imagine attacking any locate without proper preparation. It is my opinion that checking all prints before starting a locate is not "F-ing" around. As for me, I believe quite the opposite is true; if I performed a locate before studying my prints, I feel I would be out there "F-ing" around................. just sayin.'

    I have been assigned to my current area for 13 years. My utility density/responsibility is no less than 7 utilities on each ticket and I have pockets with as many as 14 utilities to locate. Today, with a high degree of accuracy, I know every utility of my responsibility that is in the ground at any address in my area. I know what's HOT and what's NOT. I know the size, location, color and type of material of each utility in my area. I know these things, not because I can see thru dirt, but because I study my prints no less than twice on each locate! I study my prints when I first get to my locate and again before I leave. During any given locate, I may return to my prints time and again to get it right. This habit started with me since day one 18 years ago and I have never stopped. This system must work because 1.) I am not plagued with damages and 2.) I am not stressed out................. again, just sayin.'

    Luv Ya Man!


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    Mke
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    Default Re: Who's stressed out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wingfoot View Post
    Greetings mke! With no disrespect, I respectively disagree with your handling of prints.

    I can not imagine attacking any locate without proper preparation. It is my opinion that checking all prints before starting a locate is not "F-ing" around. As for me, I believe quite the opposite is true; if I performed a locate before studying my prints, I feel I would be out there "F-ing" around................. just sayin.'

    I have been assigned to my current area for 13 years. My utility density/responsibility is no less than 7 utilities on each ticket and I have pockets with as many as 14 utilities to locate. Today, with a high degree of accuracy, I know every utility of my responsibility that is in the ground at any address in my area. I know what's HOT and what's NOT. I know the size, location, color and type of material of each utility in my area. I know these things, not because I can see thru dirt, but because I study my prints no less than twice on each locate! I study my prints when I first get to my locate and again before I leave. During any given locate, I may return to my prints time and again to get it right. This habit started with me since day one 18 years ago and I have never stopped. This system must work because 1.) I am not plagued with damages and 2.) I am not stressed out................. again, just sayin.'

    Luv Ya Man!


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    Wing, I seen no disrispect in what you were saying. I think you glossed over the fact that i'm not saying looking at prints is wrong. I'm just questioning the time given for initial reading of the prints. If you are looking for a specific hand hole or vault, then please, look at the prints to make sure you are accessing the cable needed. Again, I prefaced my previous post with stating that I was weird. I however, take great care in my work. Sounds like the same great care and concern you have in your area. Even though I've been locating with or for my employer for .... 10 years, I'm for certian that I do not know exactly what is under the surface. And I don't pretend to. I also, don't limit myself to what my prints say is there. I locate. I do some creative box placements. I then pull out other equipment to make sure there isn't anything slipping through the cracks. Then I pull out my prints and go over it with a fine tooth comb to make sure what I was getting make sense, and look for any unlocateable utilities that haven't been picked up with the equipment.

    I think there should be more emphasis on teaching locators to locate. I'm not advocating for the burning of all utility prints. I'll take a picture of my cubicle with all the project books on it. You'll understand that i'm up to my arse in prints. I know each locator is different. I also know that certian locating companies beat into the heads of all who are coming through their "Training" class that they need to follow the prints. I believe it is the locators responsability to "Verify" the prints, not follow.

    I'm trying to teach this to the new guy here. He has spent 14 years as a public locator and thinks that the maps show everything. They don't. At least, not here. They are good, but not perfect. Top that off, he has trouble orienting himself to the prints. This is due to him not having enough points of reference. He can easily gain these points of reference in a normal attempt to locating utilities from visible known features. However, he would rather spend 15min looking at prints that he's not totally certian are for the area where he is at.

    On a side note... How accurate are your prints?

    (I love discussions like this)

    mke

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    Senior Member ProfessionalLocator's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's stressed out?

    In general on prints looking at them is not a waste of time and is critical for accurately marking all the plant in the AOC.

    I learned a hard lesson about not looking at prints. Been doing this a lot of years and got over confident on some catv I was marking. Now 40% to 60% of their prints were wrong but the rest of the time they cannot be. I thought I knew how utilities are installed and in this suburban housing tract there is everything right across the front yards. Well at this house the back property line met the back property line of the house behind it. The house behind it was at the bottom of a cul-de-sac. Rather than run some of the utilities down the court from the main street they ran up the left property line of the subject house, through the side property line of the house behind it and feed the court from the front.

    That left property line had a trench with tv, phone and electric in it. The locators for the phone and electric also were over confident, did not read their prints and none of that was marked. Was lucky for me only the electric primary got cut. Also lucky nobody got hurt. I have not been overconfident about this since.

    Always read the prints first time at a site.

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    Senior Member Wingfoot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who's stressed out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mke View Post
    Wing, on a side note... How accurate are your prints?

    (I love discussions like this)

    mke
    Greetings mke! As a rule, all prints I possess are electronic, trustworthy and are all updated regularly.

    Gas prints - Stellar! Timely updates.

    Electricity prints - Accurate. Slow updates.

    Telephone prints - Accurate. Very slow updates.

    CATV prints - Weak. 'Nuf said.

    Sewer & Water prints - KCMO prints are above Stellar! All others SUCK worse than puking in public.


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    Mke
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    Default Re: Who's stressed out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wingfoot View Post
    Greetings mke! As a rule, all prints I possess are electronic, trustworthy and are all updated regularly.

    Gas prints - Stellar! Timely updates.

    Electricity prints - Accurate. Slow updates.

    Telephone prints - Accurate. Very slow updates.

    CATV prints - Weak. 'Nuf said.

    Sewer & Water prints - KCMO prints are above Stellar! All others SUCK worse than puking in public.


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    I guess it comes down to two different locating positions. I probably say that our records, electronic or hard copy are about 80% accurate. Because of this floating 20%, you never know which part is wrong. That is where locating comes in. My employer pays me to locate and correct any mapping issues with our electronic base map. Since we have such a big area to cover, we do this by just filling in the gaps when needed. So in other words, when a locate request comes up, I have to attack it like everything is unknown. It kinda sucks depending on the area, but what can you do?

    I still find it kind of funny that this whole side topic started with me stating that I don't look at prints as soon as I get to the site, and yet for some reason it has turned into me not looking at prints at all. Anyone who has access to prints and does not use them is an idiot. However, one who relies on prints alone isn't much better. As you know, locating is a mixture of both schools of thought. You have to be open to the idea that you can't see into the ground, but you have to be knowlegeable that any given print may not have everything on it.

    Your experience in you area has given you the opinion that most of your electronic maps are accurate, however, if you were new to the area, would you have that same opinion? That opinion is gained only after years experience.

    In the area that i'm at the public locators have:

    Gas Prints - Still stellar and timely updates

    Electricity prints - 95% schematically accurate (will show what is in the area, but may not represent the correct side of the street or routing)

    Telephone prints - 75% accurate. updated regularly, unfortunately the updates are from work 10 years ago.

    CATV prints - CATV has prints? (if you get them they are schematic only and typically differs from what is actually in the ground.

    Sewer/ Storm prints - 95% accurate, the 5% that remains are for old unlocateable force mains that have yet to be potholed to be verified.

    Water Prints - Newer stuff is pretty accurate, but the older stuff is guessed at on the base map.


    I can't attach any photos here at work, but when I get home, i'll try to attach a print of our base map here. Knowing that the area I've attach is still missing or is mis-representing typically 5% of the utilities.

    mke
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