Verizon Slowing Down in Virginia?

[OVUS1]

I recently found out that both the Ivy Smith and Mastec construction contracts are not being renewed beyond 2009 by Verizon in Virginia, and that Verizon will be cutting back FTTP construction in Virginia by as much as 75% going forward. Looks like they will continue to install FIOS on a "demand" basis, but not exactly sure what that impact will be. Prime FIOS install contracts were given to S&N Communications and JNet (there might be one other company given a prime contract as well). Both S&N and JNet are well managed companies, and work well with the locating/damage prevention community to get things done.

I will say that our biggest challenge in Virginia since day one has always been supporting the Verizon project in addition to our daily loads, as it has put a tremendous amount of pressure on and practically overwhelmed every locating company and utility locating department that the project encroached on. Maybe this will get damage prevention in Virginia back to a more manageable process for all of us.

[Goldenboy]

How long do you think copper and fiber will be used to houses? I only know a couple people with land lines. Besides a line for internet and CATV most people I know don't bother with a home phone because everyone has a cell phone anyway.

If they could find a way to put the satellite dishes in the attic I think the satellite companies would sell alot more. Who wants that ugly ass thing hanging off the side of their house. Then the only hard line to each house would be the electric and gas.

Then everyone would just die from brain cancer from all the different things going over the airwaves.

[ProfessionalLocator]

I recently found out that both the Ivy Smith and Mastec construction contracts are not being renewed beyond 2009 by Verizon in Virginia, and that Verizon will be cutting back FTTP construction in Virginia by as much as 75% going forward. Looks like they will continue to install FIOS on a "demand" basis, but not exactly sure what that impact will be. Prime FIOS install contracts were given to S&N Communications and JNet (there might be one other company given a prime contract as well). Both S&N and JNet are well managed companies, and work well with the locating/damage prevention community to get things done.

I will say that our biggest challenge in Virginia since day one has always been supporting the Verizon project in addition to our daily loads, as it has put a tremendous amount of pressure on and practically overwhelmed every locating company and utility locating department that the project encroached on. Maybe this will get damage prevention in Virginia back to a more manageable process for all of us.

This forum covers a vast geographic area so what applies in one will not be so in another.

What I noticed from satellite providers is that in many areas they are not part of the call before you dig notification system. On some houses the dish must be put on a pole in the yard to get a signal and the same for some townhouses. I cannot imagine how many of these services I have seen cut. So the locating companies may one day be picking these up to replace the TV and phone drops that fewer people are getting.

As for satellite a lot depends on your location as some terrain is not good for satellite. I cannot imagine how many services I have marked because people are dropping satellite service due to poor reception and going back to a hard line service.

[paintitnow]

In my state most of the satellite companies call in a ticket for pole installation, sometimes there is a pole sitting in a cinder block or cinder blocks weighing down a temporary cross block. Newer area for at&t have fiber to the house. None of the phone companies install a box at the house until the service is ordered. with trying to get the high speed Internet and catv there will be plenty of phone and catv hook up, just more people no longer use land lines, because most have their cell phone on them all the time and do not want that $30-50 expense.

[ProfessionalLocator]

In my state most of the satellite companies call in a ticket for pole installation, sometimes there is a pole sitting in a cinder block or cinder blocks weighing down a temporary cross block. Newer area for at&t have fiber to the house. None of the phone companies install a box at the house until the service is ordered. with trying to get the high speed Internet and catv there will be plenty of phone and catv hook up, just more people no longer use land lines, because most have their cell phone on them all the time and do not want that $30-50 expense.

While none of the phone companies in your area install an interface box at the house until service is ordered do they still bury joint with electric a service drop to the house?

Unless the contract specifies otherwise and / or the call before you dig laws specifies otherwise the phone drops would still have to be marked.

Some interesting things get said about what gets marked and what does not. I ran into a locator who marked CATV and they marked the feeders but not the service drops. I asked why and they said that since their company did not charge a damage on their personal record for a cut TV service drop they did not have to mark them. Of course state law still required them to be marked and these drops were constantly cut. This lasted until their company put TV service damages onto their personal records. I think they were always required to mark them by law and probably contract. It got out of hand and ruined a good thing for locators.


I ran into a gas locator who was not marking the gas mains in a new subdivision when the electric and phone mains were being put in. They said that since the electric and phone were 15' off the curb and the gas was 20' off the curb they did not have to mark the gas mains. They knew that the mains job would also include service stubs at 20' off the curb. Got a lot of gas damages off that locator.

Another locator was not marking gas, electric or phone for TV service drops saying that those were 30" deep and the TV service was only a couple inches deep so they did not have to be marked. Locator damaged out.

I am not responding directly to the post with these last parts, I am posting for the noobies. If there is a utility you mark in the ticket area always mark it unless you have written policy by your company telling you not to.

[Mke]

Prof, The phone company does not install drops at all in new subs, the construction company does. The phone lines don't get any attention till someone in the nieghborhood moves in (usually a demo house) then they put in all the teminal boards inside the peds and such. Some companies are cheaping out, and just installing interduct to the house, which I prefer, that way they should never have to install a new cable through my landscaping.

In the Washington state law book, it states that "(5) An owner of underground facilities is not required to indicate the presence of existing service laterals or appurtenances if the presence of existing service laterals or appurtenances on the site of the construction project can be determined from the presence of other visible facilities, such as buildings, manholes, or meter and junction boxes on or adjacent to the construction site. "

Eventhough this little bit is meant to protect the Sewer Locators, it doesn't specify which services.

mke

[ProfessionalLocator]

Prof, The phone company does not install drops at all in new subs, the construction company does. The phone lines don't get any attention till someone in the nieghborhood moves in (usually a demo house) then they put in all the teminal boards inside the peds and such. Some companies are cheaping out, and just installing interduct to the house, which I prefer, that way they should never have to install a new cable through my landscaping.

In the Washington state law book, it states that "(5) An owner of underground facilities is not required to indicate the presence of existing service laterals or appurtenances if the presence of existing service laterals or appurtenances on the site of the construction project can be determined from the presence of other visible facilities, such as buildings, manholes, or meter and junction boxes on or adjacent to the construction site. "

Eventhough this little bit is meant to protect the Sewer Locators, it doesn't specify which services.

mke

When you say "The phone company does not install drops at all in new subs, the construction company does" do you mean the builder or a utility contractor hired by the utility firms to just install their utilities?

A contractor hired by the utility firms is common and is installing a utility that the utility company (phone, water, sewage, electric, whatever) is as responsible for as if their own crews had installed them.

That legal quote is hard to follow. It looks like if their is an external electric meter, gas meter, phone or catv interface then the service need not be marked, which makes no sense. Is this law online and can you post a URL?

[Mke]

Well there are multiple contractors working on any given subdivision. The Site work guys, the ones moving the dirt, they will usually dig the ditches, the electricians usually come through and place the cables. A utility rep usually comes out to inspect the power, but no one usually comes for the phone. When they sign off on the install, the site guys burry the cables. When the Services for the house come in, the foundation is usually poured, and they trench in the Sewer, water, electrical, phone, and TV. those services are usually dug by the site work crew.

As for the Link.......

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=19.122.030

and its #5

mke

[sling'n paint]

man is it done way different where Im at. The utz have a contractor come in to lay the cables once the streets are paved and water/sewer are in. They'll either have joint trench for all or different trenches but mostly its all joint. Then they'll have a contractor lay the power service and at same time lay a TWC drop which is NEVER used. A plumber will put in the water/ sewer service and gas does there own as well. Phone drop is only done when requested. Whoever lays the cable or pipe is responsible for digging their own trench.

[ProfessionalLocator]

Well there are multiple contractors working on any given subdivision. The Site work guys, the ones moving the dirt, they will usually dig the ditches, the electricians usually come through and place the cables. A utility rep usually comes out to inspect the power, but no one usually comes for the phone. When they sign off on the install, the site guys burry the cables. When the Services for the house come in, the foundation is usually poured, and they trench in the Sewer, water, electrical, phone, and TV. those services are usually dug by the site work crew.

As for the Link.......

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=19.122.030

and its #5

mke

I read the entire document, all the pages. A query to the authority may be needed to sort out the legalize of the language.

The general question raised was who was required to mark what. I had pointed out that in my area the satellite dish companies were not marking their service drops between the yard mounted dish and the building.

The page in the link mke provided states in part;

"(2) All owners of underground facilities within a one-number locator service area shall subscribe to the service. One-number locator service rates for cable television companies will be based on the amount of their underground facilities. <SNIP>"

And;

"(3) Upon receipt of the notice provided for in this section, the owner of the underground facility shall provide the excavator with reasonably accurate information as to its locatable underground facilities by surface-marking the location of the facilities.<SNIP>"

The way this is written is the owner of any underground facility is required to be part of the one call system and is required to mark their utilitis. The way this is written would cover the dish service between the dish and building unless that service is legaly owned by the homeowner / building operator and the the dish company.

That quote of item five presents a bit of a problem because it says;

"(5) An owner of underground facilities is not required to indicate the presence of existing service laterals or appurtenances if the presence of existing service laterals or appurtenances on the site of the construction project can be determined from the presence of other visible facilities, such as buildings, manholes, or meter and junction boxes on or adjacent to the construction site."

I looked at the Definitions page and there was nothing for "construction project". The way it is written no gas, phone, water, sewer, electric, tv
services are required to be marked as long as their is an external meter, junction or manhole on the property indicating the presence of a utility there. This is contrary to the goal of protecting public safety.

This document is as it was enacted by state legislature which is by elected amateurs who know little to nothing about this subject. There is another reference to another agency which is...


RCW 19.122.027
One-number locator services — Single statewide toll-free telephone number.


(1) The utilities and transportation commission shall cause to be established a single statewide toll-free telephone number to be used for referring excavators to the appropriate one-number locator service.

(2) The utilities and transportation commission, in consultation with the Washington utilities coordinating council, shall establish minimum standards and best management practices for one-number locator services.

(3) One-number locator services shall be operated by nongovernmental agencies.

Looks like there is a "the utilities and transportation commission, in consultation with the Washington utilities coordinating council, shall establish minimum standards and best management practices for one-number locator services" There may be clarification of the issue with another government agency.

If it turns out those service drops from the dish belong to the customer / homeowner and do not get marked. Well after paying for a number of these service drops to be replaced they may well give up dish service and go back to a hard line service.

[paintitnow]

Sounds like you have come across some unprofessional locators. Hopefully the noobies will not be paired up with these types of locators during their ride a-longs. We all could probably make a very long thread on horror stories. I knew of a lot of guys that never marked all that we were contracted and most have damaged out.



I have two phone companies in my area. One is using the fiber to the house and they have always included the fiber drop when they installed the electric service. With the copper depends on the telephone installer, some use the phone drop that is with the electric service. Other are lazy and just lay a drop above ground instead of matching the drop up at the ped. So much fun when doing row or townhouses. In some area everything is put in separately.

[Mke]

Most of the time, after installation, the home/ facility owner takes responsibility for cables feeding the satellite dishes, same thing happens with propane tanks, the feeds to the house or bldg usually aint marked. Thats why their is private locators.

Most of the time the runs are self evident.

mke