Sometimes It Just Does Not Make Sense

**swagman** · March 16th, 2009, 07:57 PM

what do you think??? honestly!!!!,I was on a job today ,when I arrived the dig -line locator was locating their facilities,power ,tel ,catv,flagged on the dirt and grass and painted the asphalt,It was damp on the asphalt when the dig line locator painted the asphalt,this was in a fairly busy construction site ,after the dig-line locator finished ,he she took pictures of what had been located ,but did not take pictures of the entire locate,I was watching them ,it always fascinates me watching them trying to figure out their documentation on jobs,cheap comic relief,I was going to point this out but they left ,while I was locating other facilties,assuming they were done as they got into there truck and drove off,while I was still on site another dig-line locator and his trainee showed up- apparently to finish from the same company,I was finishing up and I Knew the trainer from my time at the Dig-line company ,at the time ,was a very helpful and professional person ,But ohh how times have changed I pointed out to him that the marks left by the previous locator had been mostly wiped out and asked if wanted to freshen them up or if he would mind if I freshen them up as the pavement was dry ,I view this as a perfect practice time for a newbie,to get his swag on and get in some machine and paint time ,mind you both locators are from the same company he tells me that there are marks there and that they would have to update the ticket for more marks,(remember the pictures of the damaged gas line with the post hole digger)same equipment minus the gas line replace it with Catv,feeder,tel,mainline and 3-phase primary,the way i see it he was there with a newbie it is still fairly slow ,he was there training,why not cover his company ,his co-worker,his utility that his company is contracted to protect!!!!and spend 30 min remarking it ,he advised me the previous locator had taken pictures of the area ,I advised him they missed the area that needed to be relocated ,his response??? they can update the ticket ,what an unproffesional a--hole!!!!I advised my client as to the situation as I watched them drive away,what would you have done

**beyond help** · March 16th, 2009, 08:17 PM

I would have first said thank you. Then pull up the ticket info just to cover my butt. Then marked the site.

**Mke** · March 17th, 2009, 09:09 AM

I would of said "Do your F-ing Job!" Nah... Just kidding. I would of had your contact on site to call the specific company and let them know they marked the wrong area, or had insufficient marks on site, and to call them directly when they get on site to mark the appropriate area.

you know what that company should do, they should make hand drawn sketches and put them into little plastic ziplocs, and shove a flag through it, and put it on the location somewhere for the contractor to refer to. you know.... just in case they have any questions of what they marked.

hehe

**swagman** · March 17th, 2009, 08:41 PM

MKE YOU ARE ONE SICK PUPPY ,I RAISED YOU RIGHT,now that I have calmed down some from now on I am marking everything or waiting until dig-line is done and double check there work ,guess the biggest thing about the incident was the newbie was with one of their trainers,right out of the gate he is being taught the wrong thing ,No Esprit De Corps or working as a company and looking out for your co-workers ,not to mention keeping someone from getting hurt If you are so miserable at your job that you cannot put your attitude aside to train even for a couple of weeks your are a PRETTY SORRY Excuse for a linepainter,and you know when the greenhorn does what he was taught and gets popped on a damage watch how fast said trainer feeds said greenhorn to the Wolves,very sad to watch .Sorry showing my old school side,used to bleed Locating Inc Blue and White,

**RD_Wrangler** · March 17th, 2009, 09:14 PM

You're right swag.

The more I read and see, the less I want to go back into the contract field.

I called in a locate for a new gate we're installing at the head of the driveway here. There is a drop ped on one side, that I requested a 30 ft radius for, just to insure I knew the location of the drops, before I augered in holes for the posts.

Now, I KNOW there are 4 drops in the ped. One 12 pair feeder, and 3 lines (2 pair, and two 6 pairs) feeding 4 individual numbers. I've been in the ped, know whats feeding what SNI etc.

I saw the locator when he arrived, and planned to go talk to him to help him out by explaining the general set-up. He began locating despite the request for a call to me in the request, and by the time I was able to get over where he was, he had at least 7 different lines painted out of the ped (6 minutes mind you) and was loading up to leave.

Needless to say I was a bit incensed just by seeing the locate in the first place, but since I didnt recognise the guy I tried to be tactful and point out that there were only 4 drops in the ped and there was no way there were 7 lines to paint, and not to mention the fact that there were NO lines painted in the direction I KNEW at least one line went.

Things went rapidly downhill from there as he came at me like I didn't know what I was talking about and then got REALLY sullen when I explained my knowledge of the situation (still not knowing I knew and probably trained with his Sup) and informed me those were the signals he got, I must be mistaken and to let him "do his job".

I'm sorry to say he most likely doesn't HAVE a job any longer thanks to a phone call to his Sup, DM and the local ATT tech (who came out to see himself), but I for one think it may have saved somebody a life in the future.

Contract companies have nobody but themselves to blame for the delimas they face if this is the type of locator they keep in the field.

**scap** · March 17th, 2009, 09:27 PM

so you got some guy bitched out for marking two extra service drops...what a nice guy you are.

just kidding, rd. lol, I'm sure they were high profile services.

**yahoo** · March 17th, 2009, 09:57 PM

i'm trying to find a nice way and respectful way of saying what i probably would have said as a locater.......maybe what's fair to say is depends on what day i was in that situation....

**RD_Wrangler** · March 18th, 2009, 08:17 AM

Guys don't get me wrong. I understand the concept of having a full load and trying to cut time any way possible (to a degree), but this simply wasn't the case.

First of all I called the locate in at 10:43am. The locator showed up at 1:00pm the same day, which tells me he was refreshing constantly just to keep hours going.

Second, every friend I still have in the field here has told me repeatedly tickets have dropped significantly and they are scrambling just to make 35 hours a week much less 40.

This guy wasn't in a rush, he wasn't under the gun, and this was a 10 min. locate MAX to do right. It was 4 drops for cripes sake. No they weren't HP to ATT according to definition, BUT they were key to the operation of OUR business during a VERY busy time (Spring Break). And regardless of the status (HP or not) they were facilities he was being paid to protect.

THAT'S the point. There really is no excuse. This guy didn't even crack the ped to see what was in it. He "starbust" the ped, insuring he had radiating lines a minimum of 2 ft apart in the area it was obvious we were doing the work. Are you telling me you find this acceptable? I TRIED to talk to the guy as a locator would and he responded with a nasty attitude. This is the reason the profesion is looked down on by MANY. Unprofesional, lazy and sloppy....is this the image you want the contractors/customers/public to have of Locate Techs?

Not me.

**ifinditunderground** · March 18th, 2009, 08:29 AM

Well put RD, well put.

**Mke** · March 18th, 2009, 09:02 AM

RD,

I wish I could say that I didn't agree with you, but.... I can't.

Part of the Reason I work where i do, is because the Engineering Department was tired of Half-a$$ed locates in and around their facilities. They took it upon themselves to put out a little bit of moola to hire their own locators to insure they get the most accurate information to design around.

With that being said, we QC everyones marks. We usually have a good idea of the exact location of said utilities before any onecall is made. We are not ball busters either, if you come out and try your hardest and still wind up being 1ft off or painting multiple utilities orange just to cover your but... thats fine, as long as you are realitively accurate.

The trend here is to not make any contact and show up at the last moment...if you show up at all. Example.... This week, we had a contractor call in a one-call ticket for a new ductbank install. The ticket was due late yesterday. I have driven by and still no marks.

Contract locating used to be a good gig back in the day. I believe the bigger companies suffer from "warm body" syndrome. (any warm body can be a locator)

and sometimes it shows.

**advanceMan** · March 18th, 2009, 12:42 PM

Regardless of what you think of me, I would NEVER call even the shittiest locators boss. I let people hang themselves. Having heard all your(collective) whinings about ticketloads, shitty training and such, i'm surprised YOU (RD) would do that to a "fellow locator". Now one more in the welfare line ,costing all of you money ultimately. Hypocrisy reigns supreme. Nice.

**advanceMan** · March 18th, 2009, 01:36 PM

[QUOTE=Mke;15640]RD,

" if you come out and try your hardest and still wind up being 1ft off or painting multiple utilities orange just to cover your but... thats fine, as long as you are realitively accurate. "

Doesn't sound like an engineering firm, sounds like promark.

**beyond help** · March 18th, 2009, 06:31 PM

I gotta agree with you RD. That's just a lazy ass that doesn't want to do their job. It was just a matter of time until something bad happened with that "locator". I don't blame you one bit for what you did.

**sprayandpray** · March 18th, 2009, 06:32 PM

If my marks are within 1 ft of the target line, I have done my job. I don't care what anyone else, especially a contractor, has to say about my effort.

**Mke** · March 18th, 2009, 06:45 PM

Advanced,

My comment is solely based on the fact that...

If the locators at least come out on site... they take the liability off my company's shoulders. If they don't come out they have an out in the state Law.

Its along the lines of " can't willing hit an underground utility line if there is signs of said utility, or no response was recieved from the Utility about its location."

My Personal Tolerence is way freakin tighter then the public's. I'm right in the range of almost perfect and Dead Nuts On. With that being said... of course there is situations out in the real world which complicate locating, but in a typical locate situation there is no reason to be more than an inch or two off of your mark (Depending on utility, and how you spray your paint.)

As for Not calling the locators Boss.... why should you protect locators who are not taking the responsibility like I assume you would with your locates. We all can spray crap on the ground, its easy. To be accurate is hard. Besides, if that company is anything like the ones around here, the locator won't be fired.... he'll be promoted.