problems with dealing with D.M.'s that don't know what is all aboout.

**DROPINTHEBOX** · July 22nd, 2009, 07:13 PM

I've been locating for 16yrs, phone, gas, electric,I know the locating business is hurting now but the guys I work with all are trying to do the best job possible. But we are being pushed for numbers every day by are D.M. which he has no clue what it take to get a locate done right. They are sending people home because they don't make numbers.So we have to cheat your asses off to make numbers. but if someone get a damage guess what they say we never told you to take short cuts. just wondering if its like that all over.

**TheCableVine** · July 22nd, 2009, 07:17 PM

Yes. I've never been sent home for having low numbers but have been 'talked to' about low numbers. You are right, though. You can't do a proper locate and give them the numbers they want. When you do get a damage they abandon you instead of telling you they know it is hard to keep up the production without cheating a little. That would make it all so worth it if they didn't leave you in a ditch somewhere (metaphorically speaking)

**Goldenboy** · July 22nd, 2009, 08:49 PM

This is what low balling contracts gets you. They need the numbers to make profit. It is very sad. I've had plenty of residential landscape tickets that if you do it right would take well over 2 hours. We can't spend 2 hours on a residential ticket though or we'd be in big trouble. That would mean you'd only get 4-6 tickets done a day.

It is a lose lose situation. Hope things get better for you. After 16 years of locating exp. you must know every shortcut known to man. The hard part is knowing when and where you can get away with the short cuts.

**USIC1** · July 23rd, 2009, 12:05 AM

I always carry a lot of paint and a high frequency locator...

What # S???

**noOT4me** · July 23rd, 2009, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by USIC1

I always carry a lot of paint and a high frequency locator...

What # S???

Sad but true. Especially CATV drop bury tickets. Everything will have paint on it....just hope it is the correct color. Nobody will say something got cut that was not marked.

**AntiQuest** · July 23rd, 2009, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Goldenboy

This is what low balling contracts gets you. They need the numbers to make profit. It is very sad. I've had plenty of residential landscape tickets that if you do it right would take well over 2 hours. We can't spend 2 hours on a residential ticket though or we'd be in big trouble. That would mean you'd only get 4-6 tickets done a day.

It is a lose lose situation. Hope things get better for you. After 16 years of locating exp. you must know every shortcut known to man. The hard part is knowing when and where you can get away with the short cuts.

I agree 100% that low balling contracts is the issue. One avenue is to listen to who is in charge at the the utility. Then call the utility anonymously and find out the person "in charge" email. Next send him/her a email, again anonymously, stating that their facilities are being half assed, due to the DM directive for production. Be polite and professional and SPECIFIC as to the instructions received and I am sure a reaction will occur.

**OVUS1** · July 23rd, 2009, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by AntiQuest

I agree 100% that low balling contracts is the issue. One avenue is to listen to who is in charge at the the utility. Then call the utility anonymously and find out the person "in charge" email. Next send him/her a email, again anonymously, stating that their facilities are being half assed, due to the DM directive for production. Be polite and professional and SPECIFIC as to the instructions received and I am sure a reaction will occur.

Don't be so sure of a reaction AntiQuest - even the most seasoned in-house operations guy has to bow down to the more powerful bean counters in their company. In this economy it doesn't pay to raise your voice too much or you might find yourself outside looking in....

Shouldn't the Operator/Utility Owner also be held resposible for taking a ridiculously low bid knowing that the company who gave them the bid can't perform at that price? I know we use the phrase "shared responsibility" when it comes to Damage Prevention, but doesn't that also apply to the Operators/Utility Owners when they accept a bid knowing the employees of the lowball bidder will obviously suffer?

**AntiQuest** · July 23rd, 2009, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by OVUS1

Don't be so sure of a reaction AntiQuest - even the most seasoned in-house operations guy has to bow down to the more powerful bean counters in their company. In this economy it doesn't pay to raise your voice too much or you might find yourself outside looking in....

Shouldn't the Operator/Utility Owner also be held resposible for taking a ridiculously low bid knowing that the company who gave them the bid can't perform at that price? I know we use the phrase "shared responsibility" when it comes to Damage Prevention, but doesn't that also apply to the Operators/Utility Owners when they accept a bid knowing the employees of the lowball bidder will obviously suffer?

Well typically from my experience the local utility could care less about the contract price, so if the correct person is informed of poor locate practices it may help. Again these contacts (yahoo account) are done anonymously, so the tech's job is not in jeopardy.

**USIC1** · July 23rd, 2009, 08:42 PM

Sometimes those beancounters step on the wrong toes and pay dearly for it...

I believe I read recently where an instance occured with a companys vehicles...

**Mke** · July 24th, 2009, 09:18 AM

I've seen low bidding at its best (construction, not locates). The price tag is always the bean counters priority. I have seen construction bids come in by companies that are just trying to get into "the game" and will severely underbid a contract. My company has put small companies out of buisness due to their underbidding the contracts. They don't do it on purpose, but if a company is not prepared and put the full cost of buisness down, they have to pay for it out of their pocket.

Example, A few years back there was a national construction magazine article about a job at our facility. It was about a crew preforming one of the largest directional bores accross a runway. The article was fabulous. What they didn't show was the fact that the prime under bit the whole job, the bore to this day has settling issues. The system that was built was not built to specs and was never accepted, and the multi-million dollar company went bankrupt before the job was finished.

They try to hide expenses in other areas. Ever wonder why you don't get Bone-Uses? Or why your company pays for damages that are not your fault?

Its all creative accounting.

it will catch up with the locate companies soon enough.

hopefully us locators won't get caught in the crossfire.

Mke

**yahoo** · July 26th, 2009, 07:28 PM

hey DROP..... we have those problems down this way too....just hang it there....like i tell my guys, i have never seen yet where a locater got fired for having numbers to low but have seen them get fired for every other subject!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!