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Thread: Locator Certification

  1. #91
    Senior Member Turk182's Avatar
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    Default Re: Locator Certification

    I think the only way you are going to achieve is through state or federal regulation, lacking that companies are just going to do what they want regardless of said board because there would be no provision for enforcement.
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  2. #92
    Mke
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    Default Re: Locator Certification

    Quote Originally Posted by Turk182 View Post
    I think the only way you are going to achieve is through state or federal regulation, lacking that companies are just going to do what they want regardless of said board because there would be no provision for enforcement.
    I see where you are going with this, and it is a reasonable idea. I unfortunately don't think this should be the path for our industry. We don't want to be "certified" by a state or federal agency who knows nothing of our industry. All that will do is force someone elses' expectations onto the locators. I think we have had enough of that to know it doesn't fair well for us.

    All we need to do is form a board and get it recognized by one of the One-call boards and I believe we can get other one-call agencies to aknowlege what we are trying to acomplish and all we need is to be referenced in one of the state law books.... i.e. "Certified Utility Locator, as in a utility locator who has met the proficiency guidelines set forth by the Association of Cablevine Locators..."

    California already has a reference to "Certified Locators" in it's state law and it wouldn't take much to get that included in rule updates.

    mke

  3. #93
    Premium Member daman1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Locator Certification

    Quote Originally Posted by Mke View Post
    I see where you are going with this, and it is a reasonable idea. I unfortunately don't think this should be the path for our industry. We don't want to be "certified" by a state or federal agency who knows nothing of our industry. All that will do is force someone elses' expectations onto the locators. I think we have had enough of that to know it doesn't fair well for us.

    All we need to do is form a board and get it recognized by one of the One-call boards and I believe we can get other one-call agencies to aknowlege what we are trying to acomplish and all we need is to be referenced in one of the state law books.... i.e. "Certified Utility Locator, as in a utility locator who has met the proficiency guidelines set forth by the Association of Cablevine Locators..."

    California already has a reference to "Certified Locators" in it's state law and it wouldn't take much to get that included in rule updates.

    mke
    If the 811 contractors didn't have to retain certified locators by law, they wouldn't. If certified locators had to compete with uncertified ones, there would be no incentive to become certified. If the 811 contractors had any say in the certification process, they would dumb it down to where it means nothing more than in-house training. I'm sorry, Mke, I don't trust the big locate guys. They will skirt any rule they can get away with and have shown themselves to use any dirty trick in the book to undermine change. They are not in this to create good jobs or for public safety. They have one goal in mind.
    I think it was Steve who spelled out the journeyman process he thought would work best and if state law treated locators like they do journey level electricians and pipe fitters, the 811 contractors would have no choice but to comply. Regardless, if anything is done that raises wages and working conditions for us, the bids will go up and utility companies will pay for it. Neither will be willing to accept that unless it is mandated by law.

    *disclaimer* I am so not for government regulation but in cases of public safety, that's what government is for.

  4. #94
    Mke
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    Default Re: Locator Certification

    Quote Originally Posted by daman1 View Post
    If the 811 contractors didn't have to retain certified locators by law, they wouldn't. If certified locators had to compete with uncertified ones, there would be no incentive to become certified. If the 811 contractors had any say in the certification process, they would dumb it down to where it means nothing more than in-house training. I'm sorry, Mke, I don't trust the big locate guys. They will skirt any rule they can get away with and have shown themselves to use any dirty trick in the book to undermine change. They are not in this to create good jobs or for public safety. They have one goal in mind.
    I think it was Steve who spelled out the journeyman process he thought would work best and if state law treated locators like they do journey level electricians and pipe fitters, the 811 contractors would have no choice but to comply. Regardless, if anything is done that raises wages and working conditions for us, the bids will go up and utility companies will pay for it. Neither will be willing to accept that unless it is mandated by law.

    *disclaimer* I am so not for government regulation but in cases of public safety, that's what government is for.
    I think we are arguing the same side of the coin here.

    You don't want the government involved in the licensing of our trade.... This should be quite evident in the way they have so flawlessly taken over health care.

    You need the local One-call boards change the verbage in the law to accept our orginization and its attributes as the accepted accreditation board. In order to get that you need to be inclusive but at the same time Strive to make the industry better. You need to be a positive influence on the industry, not just a genaric class that charges 1000 bucks for stupid information you can get online.

    Our orginization needs to be in control of the standards and the application of those standards. Who better to see through another locators BS then a locator?

    mke

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    Premium Member daman1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Locator Certification

    Quote Originally Posted by Mke View Post
    I think we are arguing the same side of the coin here.

    You don't want the government involved in the licensing of our trade.... This should be quite evident in the way they have so flawlessly taken over health care.

    You need the local One-call boards change the verbage in the law to accept our orginization and its attributes as the accepted accreditation board. In order to get that you need to be inclusive but at the same time Strive to make the industry better. You need to be a positive influence on the industry, not just a genaric class that charges 1000 bucks for stupid information you can get online.

    Our orginization needs to be in control of the standards and the application of those standards. Who better to see through another locators BS then a locator?

    mke
    The government isn't involved in the actual licensing procedures. They would choose the programs acceptable to issue licenses. Even though the government issues CDL licenses, they don't train truckers. Truckers get sent to accredited driving schools. Upon passing, they apply to the state BMV for recognition. Probably charge some stupid fee. Trucking is a low skill job but because of CDL's they make bank. Didn't seem to hurt the trucking industry at all. I don't think it'd hurt the 811 contractors either. It would put pressure on the utilities, and in the end, the customer but it would barely be a noticeable increase with the millions of involved.

  6. #96
    Senior Member Turk182's Avatar
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    Default Re: Locator Certification

    Quote Originally Posted by Mke View Post
    I think we are arguing the same side of the coin here.

    You don't want the government involved in the licensing of our trade.... This should be quite evident in the way they have so flawlessly taken over health care.

    You need the local One-call boards change the verbage in the law to accept our orginization and its attributes as the accepted accreditation board. In order to get that you need to be inclusive but at the same time Strive to make the industry better. You need to be a positive influence on the industry, not just a genaric class that charges 1000 bucks for stupid information you can get online.
    The states regulate the one call centers, in Illinois it is handled by the commerce commission, so when all is said and done it comes down to state regulation, it need not mean the state administers the test for accreditation, but they are probably going to want to be the license issuing body, just for the personal licensing revenue.

  7. #97
    Senior Member Enjoythefall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Locator Certification

    There is no pride in today's locate game. It's not just the locate companies creating the problem.
    Most major utility contracts don't give a flying flip about damage prevention, so long as they can pass the bill down the line.
    Who care's if the locate company does a piss poor job, so long as they end up footing the bill? Hell, the utility decides how much they charge for repairs, so they can actually use a locate contract for profit. Charge 3,000 bucks for a hit copper drop, and whatnot. It more resembles line hit insurance than damage prevention, and from a utility perspective, The cheaper they can buy that insurance the better.The locators and locate process seem almost an afterthought.

    Don't mean to rant, point is we're all being super naive, and there are too many hands in the jar to go and flip the system upside down.

    ... What am I saying? Heck, I'm in. I'll go make a fort out of blankets in my back yard, and then we can toats us it as a meeting place, lulz.
    Last edited by Enjoythefall; October 1st, 2014 at 08:16 PM.
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  8. #98
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    Default Re: Locator Certification

    I beg to differ. Depends who you are and what type of work ethics you have. I think the veterans all still take pride in locating. It's just that the morale is down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enjoythefall View Post
    There is no pride in today's locate game.

  9. #99
    Mke
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    Default Re: Locator Certification

    Quote Originally Posted by Enjoythefall View Post
    There is no pride in today's locate game. It's not just the locate companies creating the problem.
    Most major utility contracts don't give a flying flip about damage prevention, so long as they can pass the bill down the line.
    Who care's if the locate company does a piss poor job, so long as they end up footing the bill? Hell, the utility decides how much they charge for repairs, so they can actually use a locate contract for profit. Charge 3,000 bucks for a hit copper drop, and whatnot. It more resembles line hit insurance than damage prevention, and from a utility perspective, The cheaper they can buy that insurance the better.The locators and locate process seem almost an afterthought.

    Don't mean to rant, point is we're all being super naive, and there are too many hands in the jar to go and flip the system upside down.

    ... What am I saying? Heck, I'm in. I'll go make a fort out of blankets in my back yard, and then we can toats us it as a meeting place, lulz.
    Enjoy, don't confuse naivete for hope.

    We are all in the grind in one way or another. After a while you have to hope for something better. Some may be naive, but others just know the industry is suffering from a terminal case of Cranial rectitus (head up its ass) and want for something different.

    I for one, don't expect a change to be easy or quick. I however, don't think it should be forced down the industries gullet like the ever increasing minimum wage.

    If we can regulate ourselves, not unionize, but regulate our own industry standards it will be noticed and encouraged by the one-call boards. Like i've said previously, it only takes one board to back having a Certified locator to provide locates and the industry will start to swing that way if it is orginized properly.

    Our biggest issue is the fact that "Utility Locator" is a made up position with no qualification what so ever. We need to change that, not just the title, but the fact that a good locator is hard to find and people shouldn't confuse a good locator with any locator.

    You are correct stating that the utilities contract out locates just to avoid the liability. That is exactly what they do. They have no respect for the task of locating. When locating was in house with these companies, most of the time they were either treated as a position for the linement who were getting ready to retire, or for new hires to learn the area. Neither were locators.

    The only way to over come this persona is to diffinitively show a difference between A good seasoned locator and a FNG. Besides the dirty vests and pile of fastfood bags in the passenger seat. When it comes down to it, you know this makes sense. You just know how long it is going to take and the realization that it is going to suck for a while longer brings the negativity out. Stuff like this, you need to be positive.

    mke
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  10. #100
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    Default Re: Locator Certification

    So who is to say what a good locator is and what just any locator is?


    Quote Originally Posted by Mke View Post
    Our biggest issue is the fact that "Utility Locator" is a made up position with no qualification what so ever. We need to change that, not just the title, but the fact that a good locator is hard to find and people shouldn't confuse a good locator with any locator.
    mke

  11. #101
    Mke
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    Default Re: Locator Certification

    Quote Originally Posted by The Marlboro Man View Post
    So who is to say what a good locator is and what just any locator is?
    Marlboro, It's quite simple...

    You. Me. All of us. We all know what a good locator is and does. We should be able to work together to figure out a system to test for this compentency. This compentency and years of experience should help us understand who's applying for certification.

    This system isn't to keep people out, it's to show who knows the basics and who is actively trying to become better at their craft.

    What says you?

    mke
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  12. #102
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    Default Re: Locator Certification

    Oh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mke View Post
    Marlboro, It's quite simple...

    You. Me. All of us. We all know what a good locator is and does. We should be able to work together to figure out a system to test for this compentency. This compentency and years of experience should help us understand who's applying for certification.

    This system isn't to keep people out, it's to show who knows the basics and who is actively trying to become better at their craft.

    What says you?

    mke

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