Drawings?

**beyond help** · June 17th, 2008, 10:12 PM

If you don't have pictures, you might as well call it a damage. There is no other way to prove it was marked before it was damaged.

**underground quester** · June 17th, 2008, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by beyond help

If you don't have pictures, you might as well call it a damage. There is no other way to prove it was marked before it was damaged.

Hey there Beyond:

As usual, I certainly cannot argue with your logic. We do seem to eat a lot of hits I don't think we should.

Question though, everyone here gets hung up on the utilities exact location. When you take pictures, is this something you concern yourself with? If so, how do you accomplish the measurement proof in the photo?

If not, how do you establish exact location of a utility from the photos when in a court of law?

How do you log photos and where do you store the CD's (at the office). How do you know which CD a particular locate is on...do you have some kind of sequencing or numbering method?

**beyond help** · June 17th, 2008, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by underground quester

Hey there Beyond:

As usual, I certainly cannot argue with your logic. We do seem to eat a lot of hits I don't think we should.

Question though, everyone here gets hung up on the utilities exact location. When you take pictures, is this something you concern yourself with? If so, how do you accomplish the measurement proof in the photo?

If not, how do you establish exact location of a utility from the photos when in a court of law?

How do you log photos and where do you store the CD's (at the office). How do you know which CD a particular locate is on...do you have some kind of sequencing or numbering method?

There is not much of a way to show measurements in a photo, but to show that it was close in a lot of cases will suffice. Taking the damage pics while the utility is exposed is huge. You can hook up and compare what you are locating post damage to where the remaining marks are (if still there). Or you can compare your pre dig pics to the pics after the damage. In most cases, the latter will almost always be good in a court of law (as long as there is some kind of distinguishable landmark). SM&P went to a system that automatically download the pics to each individual ticket, and if there is a damage, it will attach the damage pics to those as well (OF COURSE, WHEN IT DECIDES TO WORK). This has made it a hell of a lot better than it used to be. Still have quite a few bugs to work out though

**2RUDE** · June 18th, 2008, 07:04 PM

.

**Goldenboy** · June 18th, 2008, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by 2RUDE

Holy ****! Doesn't 20-30 pics of a single lot seem a bit excessive? So you're more of a photgrapher than a utility locator by the sounds of it?

Where we work if we don't have a picture of the spot of the damage we pay for it. I make sure I have a picture of every line I mark. We have pretty good digital cameras so it takes no time at all to take the pictures.

**yahoo** · June 18th, 2008, 07:17 PM

we have to draw a sketch per our contract....this is stupid to me when we produce pics of the locate.....

**underground quester** · June 18th, 2008, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by Goldenboy

Where we work if we don't have a picture of the spot of the damage we pay for it. I make sure I have a picture of every line I mark. We have pretty good digital cameras so it takes no time at all to take the pictures.

Golden: I am trying to visualize this on a longer locate or in longer congested areas. Must be really tough to "know" in advance where the Track hoe is going to dig (I am kidding of course!) but have you ever had to eat a "HIT" that you knew was not the fault of the locate?

That seems pretty arcane to me. When a hit happens the root cause should be looked for and preventive mesaures put in place to prevent/reduce the likelyhood of reoccurance.

If the contractor is lucky enough for you not to have a photo he walks away laughing and knows he dodged the silver bullet! WTF?

That is just unreasonable and unfair to me.

**sprayandpray** · June 18th, 2008, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by underground quester

Golden: I am trying to visualize this on a longer locate or in longer congested areas. Must be really tough to "know" in advance where the Track hoe is going to dig (I am kidding of course!) but have you ever had to eat a "HIT" that you knew was not the fault of the locate?

That seems pretty arcane to me. When a hit happens the root cause should be looked for and preventive mesaures put in place to prevent/reduce the likelyhood of reoccurance.

If the contractor is lucky enough for you not to have a photo he walks away laughing and knows he dodged the silver bullet! WTF?

That is just unreasonable and unfair to me.

UG, pardon me but you're not seeing the bigger picture. If the client, generally AT&T, can find fault with your pictures, either pre-digs or investigation shots, the Locating Company is going to pay for the damage even if the investigation establishes a strong case that the contractor was at fault - it is easier to collect from the locate co. than the contractor.

**underground quester** · June 18th, 2008, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by sprayandpray

UG, pardon me but you're not seeing the bigger picture. If the client, generally AT&T, can find fault with your pictures, either pre-digs or investigation shots, the Locating Company is going to pay for the damage even if the investigation establishes a strong case that the contractor was at fault - it is easier to collect from the locate co. than the contractor.

Spray:

Yes, I agree. It strikes me we have the same situation here.

My point I guess in a convoluted kind of way is "It's B.S., it's unfair, but it's not likely to change any time soon."

**beyond help** · June 18th, 2008, 11:56 PM

Here's another one. Had a contractor say I had never marked this sight with 15 office bldgs. Had over 500 pics to prove it was. I'm as bad as golden. I take a pics as fast as my finger can press the button.

**Goldenboy** · June 19th, 2008, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by beyond help

Here's another one. Had a contractor say I had never marked this sight with 15 office bldgs. Had over 500 pics to prove it was. I'm as bad as golden. I take a pics as fast as my finger can press the button.

The thing I love most is SM&P's new photo management system. I get called back to a "not marked" ticket and the contractors screaming. I just tell him to hold one second, go to my truck and pull up the original pictures, and shove it down the contractors throat.

**underground quester** · June 19th, 2008, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by Goldenboy

The thing I love most is SM&P's new photo management system. I get called back to a "not marked" ticket and the contractors screaming. I just tell him to hold one second, go to my truck and pull up the original pictures, and shove it down the contractors throat.

Golden:

Do you time and date stamp your pictures to add further evidence to when the photos were actually taken?

**Goldenboy** · June 19th, 2008, 08:33 PM

Yes we turn on the date stamp on our cameras. If you look in my album you'll see in the lower left of the picture it has the date stamp.

Click here for my album

**LadyLeatherneck** · June 19th, 2008, 09:32 PM

I think someone should do the figures on how much time is actually spent at each locate doing drawings and multiply that by how many drawings are done a year by one locator and multiply that by how many locators "draw" for a specific office and multiply that by # of offices owned by that utility. I bet it's more than we make in a year!

Instead of being called locators, we need a job title that involves artists/engineers! We'd make more $. Put that in the suggestion box.