Discipline?

[Mke]

So, I have tapped to write up standard operating proceedures for the disciplining of locators who get damaged. In other words, I have to figure out when is the cut-off point? When does a locator get the ax for missing utilities. I figured I'd come here see what you guys think.

I've already laid the ground work to the boss (not a locator) that its not the missed utility, but its the severity of the miss. I told him that there is so many things to take into consideration. The importance of the line, for one. Weather the line is locateable or not. Weather the line is on the maps or not.

I'm just curious if you guys have a set limit. The company I used to work for, they always said "any at fault damage is Bad" So a 5 pr drop is just as important as a fiber. With that in mind, they would write you up with the first damage, on the second you were on unpaid leave for a day while they investigated. When you came back, they would have a QC guy ride with you, and with the 3rd they would let you go.


I however, have a little more patience and understanding, when it comes to damages, and hate the idea of writing a policy that does not take into account the severity of the damage, and the extenuating cicumstances. (please forgive the spelling errors.......I am a product of the California school system.) I think if there is a high profile line, that is on a map, and locates great, and is missed. The locator should be axed on the first one. However, if he has an elecrical line that is shadowed by another utility, or a utility that is shadowed by a fence I have a bit more understanding of the difficulty of locating the line.

Just curious.

mke

[yahoo]

for the first year maybe 4-5 small (100pr or less) before getting axed! 2nd year 2-3 damages for the year and 3rd year 1-2 and then every year after that 1 or so ........there is a fine line here with this subject. getting fired over something that is bound to happen in life in any job is where you really have to look into that person's life......which creates a new problem...getting into someone elses business.....where do you offer help?????I would only fire an employee for unsafe practices of any sort only after I have exhausted all other forms of teaching and discipline. I'm sure I have not made myself clear ..Mke so if you have any questions then ask me .....

[sprayandpray]

Damn yahoo, Ya'll are really being tight-assed about this. 1-2 small damages in 1 year for a Locator with 5 plus years service that bills out
$700 plus per day, that hardly ever needs help, that always helps the new guys? Damn, bill $1-2 million for the company and get fired because of 2 drops? I guess you don't like tenured locators very much.

[3in13notbad]

Well as ya know everydamage is different, its hard to set a limit and all that. If they just didnt locate it or even try then the punisment should be more then tried and thought they was on it and wasnt. Did they unbond, do the sweep, what was they runnin in all factors. Ive had damages where I did everything right and still was 4ft off, even after the damage and the DI came out and got the same thing I did, I still got a "vacation" for it. Might have 2 list, if ya did it right and what was cut, the 2nd was the just bein lazy and didnt want to do the work.

[ProfessionalLocator]

First divide the damages into two groups, group one the locator simply did not do their job, there was no attempt to locate the utility. This is serious and deserving of time off. I am not saying they misread the ticket and did not understand what the work area was, I am saying they just did not mark the ticket. If they are falsifying tickets, writing them up as marked when they did no marking, then they have to be fired. I know one locator who had to be let go. A check of his tickets showed that in an overhead area they wrote their tickets up as marked and in a buried area they wrote them up a clear, all overhead. This locator never drove to the sites or even looked at the drawings. They had to go. This check was made after a damage occurred in one of his "clear" tickets.

As for damages due to errors, that is part of the cost of business. If people were perfect then the excavators could do this and locators would not be needed.

Time off? Forget that idea right now. Tie damages in with pay rate, after so many damages they are not permitted a raise. After so many more damages their pay rate is adjusted down. Too many damages then the locator must be let go, I have seen the let go figure at 5 or even more damages in a 12 month period. Plus noobies can easily get that 5 damages. So leeway is needed on damages. Just becasue someone has located for 5 or 10 years does not make them exempt from a run of locating in the wrong place at the wrong time. Some damages are just waiting to happen due to how the utility was installed and run into to many of these in one year, well do not fire a valuable locator due to circumstance.

Also drop the idea of the size, read cost, of the damage as a deciding factor. Just getting one large damage is just as possible as getting one small, less costly, damage. Keep it based on gross numbers.

[yahoo]

well that's not counting any drops .........and your right...I was a little harsh....it's just my thinking for the moment....

Damn yahoo, Ya'll are really being tight-assed about this. 1-2 small damages in 1 year for a Locator with 5 plus years service that bills out
$700 plus per day, that hardly ever needs help, that always helps the new guys? Damn, bill $1-2 million for the company and get fired because of 2 drops? I guess you don't like tenured locators very much.

[ProfessionalLocator]

Previously I wrote against "discipline" for damages, mistakes happen. I tied frequent mistakes in with pay rate, you are paid for what you are worth.

I was against firing someone just because one of their damages was "high profile" / expensive. People learn by their mistakes and damages are part of the overall and ongoing training process costs.

I did note the difference between a miss-mark and a falsified ticket where the locator did not mark the job but claimed to have, that is different.

Now consider this, how do you apply the "discipline" for making mistakes to all employees? Managers are employees just like locators and the locators are very aware of this.

Did your managers buy the wrong software? Buy the wrong vehicles? Fail to catch a loop hole in a contract they signed? An expensive mistake of any kind? Where these employees, managers of all levels are employees, fired for their expensive mistake? No, they were not.

You can not automatically fire locators for the same, often more expensive, mistakes that the manger employees also make. Not and expect to maintain a dedicated and loyal workforce.

[Shadowcat]

Well I know by old SM&P standards that you can only have 3 High Profile damages on your record during your whole career with SM&P. Usually the 3rd one gets you canned depending on the circumstances. Anything not High Profile is evaluated on a case by case basis. There are many variables that come into question. If the locator is deemed to have too many preventable damages (all depending on their experience) then there is a SOP that is followed concerning process of termination. Usually it is a 3 strike deal depending on what all the locator did to try and prevent the damage from occurring. Of course this does not apply to not-at-fault damages. Mostly is a case by case investigation for that particular locator.

[Mke]

Hey PL, You have some valid points, but I believe in certian situations one should be let go one damage, depending on the damage. For example, we have a 12 Aviation Fuel line, locates great. Not only does it locate great, but its on our GIS mapping software, as well as, we have as-built drawing of when it was installed. If I was to send a locator out to locate an area that encompassed that fuel line, and they did not locate that fuel line and it was damaged..........i'm sorry but there is no excuse for it.

Its understandable to miss the difficult utilities, or Easy utilities in difficult situations, but Important utilities that are easy to located in easy situations? No patience for this. All "easy" locate damages do, is undermine the use of any excuse for unlocated utilities.

Stuff I have no Patience for.....

1) Marking Telephone lines going into CATV Peds.... Visa Versa. Like wise with Marking electrical as Communication.

2) Missing Utilities that are Easy

3) Blaming your equipment

4) Blaming your Co-workers

5) Asking for advise, then not taking it.



mke

[animal]

mke i would have to dissagree with you
just the other day a friend of mine was locating an apartment building he was using LF he told me his best tone was on the water service then followed out to the water main the crapy tone was ontop the lat that fed the building
missing a utility the office calls you 80 times when you are trying to do a locate about another ticket you & your looking @ 90 do yet for today & it's noon with no help you try to hury, things like this should not fall back onto the locator because you are under staffed
blaming your co workers if you cut a project into sections each person should do there part if something is missed don't blame the guy who is holdig the ticket (my friend got burned by this one)

[OVUS1]

We use an internal 10 step process to define Reasonable Care. If these steps are followed, and a damage still occurs, it is deemed to be "cost of doing business" and is logged as a non-liable damage for the Technician. If any of these steps are not followed or completed and a damage occurs, the Technician or person responsible for the omission is charged with the damage. The Technician's future pay scale is reduced $1 per hour for 30 calendar days (generally 20 working days for a total of approximately $160) for his/her mistake. After 30 calendar days with no additional at-fault damages recorded the Technician is restored to their previous pay level. If the Technician has a second at-fault damage within the first 30 calendar day period, their future pay scale is reduced an additional $1 per hour and the clock resets for 30 calendar days beginning on the date the second damage is charged. If the Technician has a third at-fault damage in this 30 calendar day period they are terminated. This puts some skin in the game for the Technician and gives them incentive to improve performance. The actual cost of the damage does not factor into our process, so there is no distinction between a $300 damage claim or a $30,000 damage claim when determining the future of a Technician with our company due to damages. I have to say it is not a popular process with anyone here, but each person has to be responsible for their actions at work and in life. We, like most people, prefer to pay for good work and not pay for bad work when someone decides to cut a corner or skip a critical process.

Here are the ten steps we require to meet the Reasonable Care standard:

RECEIVE AND REVIEW THE LOCATE REQUEST FROM THE ONE CALL CENTER
DISPATCH THE LOCATE REQUEST TO COMPETENT FIELD PERSONNEL
ARRIVE ON SITE - VERIFY ADDRESS & REVIEW INSTRUCTIONS ON LOCATE REQUEST
SURVEY SITE TO IDENTIFY ALL INDICATIONS OF UTILITIES, WORK AREA AND POSSIBLE HAZARDS
CONTACT EXCAVATOR IF ANY INSTRUCTIONS ARE UNCLEAR OR ANY ADVERSE CONDITION EXISTS
REFER TO ALL AVAILABLE MAPS & FACILITY RECORDS - BOTH PAPER AND ELECTRONIC
PHYSICALLY LOCATE SITE USING ACCEPTED MARKING STANDARDS, ALL SKILL / EQUIPMENT AVAILABLE
IF UNABLE TO LOCATE, REFER TICKET TO SR DPS, LEAD, OR SUPERVISOR AND PROVIDE DOCUMENTATION/INFORMATION
COMPLETE ALL POST-LOCATE DOCUMENTATION INCLUDING MANIFEST AND/OR PHOTOGRAPHS
POSITIVELY RESPOND TO THE CALL CENTER WITHIN THE TIME REQUIRED BY LAW

[Bad Robot]

We use an internal 10 step process to define Reasonable Care. If these steps are followed, and a damage still occurs, it is deemed to be "cost of doing business" and is logged as a non-liable damage for the Technician. If any of these steps are not followed or completed and a damage occurs, the Technician or person responsible for the omission is charged with the damage. The Technician's future pay scale is reduced $1 per hour for 30 calendar days (generally 20 working days for a total of approximately $160) for his/her mistake. After 30 calendar days with no additional at-fault damages recorded the Technician is restored to their previous pay level. If the Technician has a second at-fault damage within the first 30 calendar day period, their future pay scale is reduced an additional $1 per hour and the clock resets for 30 calendar days beginning on the date the second damage is charged. If the Technician has a third at-fault damage in this 30 calendar day period they are terminated. This puts some skin in the game for the Technician and gives them incentive to improve performance. The actual cost of the damage does not factor into our process, so there is no distinction between a $300 damage claim or a $30,000 damage claim when determining the future of a Technician with our company due to damages. I have to say it is not a popular process with anyone here, but each person has to be responsible for their actions at work and in life. We, like most people, prefer to pay for good work and not pay for bad work when someone decides to cut a corner or skip a critical process.

Here are the ten steps we require to meet the Reasonable Care standard:

RECEIVE AND REVIEW THE LOCATE REQUEST FROM THE ONE CALL CENTER
DISPATCH THE LOCATE REQUEST TO COMPETENT FIELD PERSONNEL
ARRIVE ON SITE - VERIFY ADDRESS & REVIEW INSTRUCTIONS ON LOCATE REQUEST
SURVEY SITE TO IDENTIFY ALL INDICATIONS OF UTILITIES, WORK AREA AND POSSIBLE HAZARDS
CONTACT EXCAVATOR IF ANY INSTRUCTIONS ARE UNCLEAR OR ANY ADVERSE CONDITION EXISTS
REFER TO ALL AVAILABLE MAPS & FACILITY RECORDS - BOTH PAPER AND ELECTRONIC
PHYSICALLY LOCATE SITE USING ACCEPTED MARKING STANDARDS, ALL SKILL / EQUIPMENT AVAILABLE
IF UNABLE TO LOCATE, REFER TICKET TO SR DPS, LEAD, OR SUPERVISOR AND PROVIDE DOCUMENTATION/INFORMATION
COMPLETE ALL POST-LOCATE DOCUMENTATION INCLUDING MANIFEST AND/OR PHOTOGRAPHS
POSITIVELY RESPOND TO THE CALL CENTER WITHIN THE TIME REQUIRED BY LAW

This is a damned sight better than any other contract locating co's. spec that I have seen. It gives one the impression that you are not out to hang your employees out to dry when there's the occasional bad bounce.