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Thread: Dallas Pipe Line Explosion

  1. #61
    Mke
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    Default Re: Dallas Pipe Line Explosion

    so, for morbid curiousity I did a ticket search on www.searchandstatus.com for tickets that were called in during the time frame of the accident. And i'll be damned if there wasn't quite a few tickets called in by that company in the area of the explosion. Down at the bottom of the tickets list the respondants which contained only one......... Empire. If the ticket doesn't list Enterprise, how did they get notified?

    The second thing I noticed was the location was only described by GPS coordinates..... Off the cuff, how many of you guys know how to find a location using GPS coordinates?

    Mke

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    Senior Member sprayandpray's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dallas Pipe Line Explosion

    It is up to the utility owners to provide DigTess with the location of their utility so it can be added to the proper grid. The question is Did Enterprise provide the proper info to DigTess or did they get left off the list because of some DigTess problem /mistake?

    In answer to Mke's question about locating an address / site by GPS, I'm not equipped to do so. But, if it's a standard practice for rural areas, then I would think companies, especially pipeline companies, would have had to equip their locators with GPS units in order to find these remote locations.
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  3. #63
    Senior Member UULC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dallas Pipe Line Explosion

    S&P, you are correct in locator's not equipped with GPS for Lont/lad to locate an area. Here in Florida, we would get tickets with both GPS coordinates and a general area and you would have to call the contractor to meet on site. They were always happy to do so.

    This damage did not have to occurred and a wife, children and family lose their love one. My heart goes out to them. As a company this project SHOULD HAVE been surveyed prior to construction and all facilities SHOULD HAVE been designated.

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    Senior Member ProfessionalLocator's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dallas Pipe Line Explosion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mke View Post
    so, for morbid curiousity I did a ticket search on www.searchandstatus.com for tickets that were called in during the time frame of the accident. And i'll be damned if there wasn't quite a few tickets called in by that company in the area of the explosion. Down at the bottom of the tickets list the respondants which contained only one......... Empire. If the ticket doesn't list Enterprise, how did they get notified?

    The second thing I noticed was the location was only described by GPS coordinates..... Off the cuff, how many of you guys know how to find a location using GPS coordinates?

    Mke
    Getting notification of a dig in your area is fully dependent on how the one call center assigns their locate areas.

    In Maryland they used a simple map grid system based on ADC (Alexandria Drafting Company) book maps. A utility lists the map grids they have their utility in and this is entered into the database.

    If a database entry is in error the locating entity may not be notified. If the wrong map grid is entered by the one call center operator, or their computer, then the locate entity may not be notified. If utilities are added in a map grid that was not previously listed for that utility and the database not updated then the locate entity may not get notified.

    Most people calling in locates do not know the GPS coordinates and this data is entered by the call center computers based on their mapping software, any error here can result in the locate entity not getting notification the same as getting the wrong map grid.


    I worked an area where the client utility supplied the catv service to that county with an exclusive permit from the county. Contractors complained that we were not responding to all their calls in my area. I checked and found no ticket has been sent to our firm. This was becasue those map grids in our county had no catv installed so we simply were never notified.
    If the contractor has called in along ticket where they crossed into a grid where we had utility we would never have had the opportunity to mark it.

  5. #65
    Mke
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    Default Re: Dallas Pipe Line Explosion

    I go back to my original thought that this is a true tragedy and that this should of never happened. I do believe that the family of the worker who was killed is entitled to some damages. I also think that they shouldn't just stop the investigation with the easiest person to blame. There is a bigger problem here then a locator not locating a utility.

    Our GIS system lets you plop in GPS coordinates to help guide you to whatever point you are looking for. However, I found out that our GIS system is based on the state coordinate system. Which is drastically different then the one my company uses. The bad part is their is different coordinate systems depending where you are. Where I am right now most of our survey is ran off of our own coordinate system (this system is engineered and checked to the smallest tolerances.). The city runs off of their own. Most private survey companies use the State coordinate system. And you guessed it. the GPS coordinates you get off your hand held GPS units are different than these two.

    UULC is right, that there should of been a call to have a meet on site. A face to face answers all questions.

    mke

  6. #66
    Right Wing Conspirator GWJ_CAS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dallas Pipe Line Explosion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mke View Post
    I go back to my original thought that this is a true tragedy and that this should of never happened. I do believe that the family of the worker who was killed is entitled to some damages. I also think that they shouldn't just stop the investigation with the easiest person to blame. There is a bigger problem here then a locator not locating a utility.

    Our GIS system lets you plop in GPS coordinates to help guide you to whatever point you are looking for. However, I found out that our GIS system is based on the state coordinate system. Which is drastically different then the one my company uses. The bad part is their is different coordinate systems depending where you are. Where I am right now most of our survey is ran off of our own coordinate system (this system is engineered and checked to the smallest tolerances.). The city runs off of their own. Most private survey companies use the State coordinate system. And you guessed it. the GPS coordinates you get off your hand held GPS units are different than these two.

    UULC is right, that there should of been a call to have a meet on site. A face to face answers all questions.

    mke
    In your handheld GPS unit there should be a way to select different coordinate systems. State Plane Coordinate systems use UTMS or NAD83 or NAD27 as the base system for coordinates. The better handhelds have these optional data sets built in. If your GPS supports these data sets, try switching between them to see which coordinate base aligns with your ticket data. The funny thing is, they will all easily convert to a standard Lat/Lon point which is universal to all GPS systems, you just have to know which database you are starting with to properly convert to standard Lat/Lon. There are several free software pieces available to convert from UTMS, NAD83, etc to Lat/Lon and vice versa...

    Here is one that is web based http://gis.dep.wv.gov/convert/llutm_conus.php

    Here is a link to the US Army Corps of Engineers "Corpscon" software downloads page. The USACE software will convert ALL formats of GPS coordinate datum.
    http://crunch.tec.army.mil/software/.../corpscon.html

  7. #67
    Mke
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    Default Re: Dallas Pipe Line Explosion

    Spoken like a Surveyor. We actually just switched from NAD 83 to NAD88 which looks like it only affected the vertical datum. I am still learning all the this stuff about GPS and I see our Engineers make mistakes dealing with information that is in a different datum. I wasn't sure if typical locators who are given instructions like this would know that there is different coordinate systems and within that know if things are not adding up.

    Thanks for the links though. Didn't have that first one. We actually work hand in hand with the corps, so we got the second one.

    Mke

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    Senior Member wet_boots101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dallas Pipe Line Explosion

    I just noticed something, from Wingfoot's pix on p.1 of this thread:



    I know this picture is a long aerial shot from a helicopter, but - wouldn't the crew digging the hole know they were in a right-of-way and wondered where the marks were? The ROW, cleared of foliage on both sides of where the explosion happened, seems pretty visible from this shot.

    Not trying to monday-night QB this here, what happened was terrible... just occurred to me is all. Maybe the ROW wasn't noticeable from ground level beforehand.

    Another thing, that's a pretty big ROW, width-wise. Any other utils share it? Were they marked / notified as well?
    "Aye, verily hath I spoken." - Thor, god of thunder

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    Senior Member sprayandpray's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dallas Pipe Line Explosion

    At least 1 other gas utility was marked per our info and that was Atmos.
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  10. #70
    Junior Member Inspired's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dallas Pipe Line Explosion

    Quote Originally Posted by wet_boots101 View Post
    I just noticed something, from Wingfoot's pix on p.1 of this thread:



    I know this picture is a long aerial shot from a helicopter, but - wouldn't the crew digging the hole know they were in a right-of-way and wondered where the marks were? The ROW, cleared of foliage on both sides of where the explosion happened, seems pretty visible from this shot.

    Not trying to monday-night QB this here, what happened was terrible... just occurred to me is all. Maybe the ROW wasn't noticeable from ground level beforehand.

    Another thing, that's a pretty big ROW, width-wise. Any other utils share it? Were they marked / notified as well?
    I was thinking the same thing.

  11. #71
    Senior Member sprayandpray's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dallas Pipe Line Explosion

    This article sure won't help some people sleep tonite

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...+-+Top+Stories)
    I might not be as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was !


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  12. #72
    Senior Member Wingfoot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dallas Pipe Line Explosion

    Vacuum Extraction Services



    "The 100% Safe Digging Alternative"

    Using Water to Dig

    Rockies Construction runs nine vacuum excavation trucks, and they all use water for digging. “The air machines don’t seem to work as well in the rocky clay type soil that we dig into,” says Clayton Spurgeon, manager for Rockies.

    Six of the trucks are large Tornado Hydrovacs (formerly Tornado Technologies) units with 12-cubic-yard debris tanks. “I like the Tornados a lot,” Spurgeon says. “They’re the quietest of all the vacuum trucks and they seem to break down less than the others. I think the Tornados have the best reputation for simplicity and reliability.”


    Another Hydrovac is a 7-yard Tornado. Another is a 6-cubic-yard Amerivac, and they also have a four-wheel drive truck with a 3-yard tank for getting into small areas.

    Rockies once dug a 50-foot-deep hole, 8 feet in diameter, for a power transmission pole in Utah. As the unit dug down, Rockies inserted corrugated metal rings, each 10-foot tall, into the hole to support the soil.

    “We’ve done quite a few pipeline projects,” says Spurgeon. “We spot all the utilities for a 5- or 6-mile stretch of pipe, and pothole down to the utility junctions. Then we dig a bell-shaped hole where the new service ties into the existing service. We slope the bell-holes according to OSHA requirements so that a worker can get in there to make the junction.”

    --------------------------------------------------------------

  13. #73
    Senior Member sprayandpray's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dallas Pipe Line Explosion

    I might not be as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was !


    It's better to be Pissed Off than Pissed On or Stood On and Pissed Off Of !


    The views expressed on this website/blog are mine alone and do not reflect the views of my employer. or my wife , if that matters.

  14. #74
    Senior Member Wingfoot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dallas Pipe Line Explosion



    -----------------------------------------------

  15. #75
    Senior Member RD_Wrangler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dallas Pipe Line Explosion

    I love how they all think it's a plane...I guess gas screaming out of the line does sound a little like a plane...
    Character is what you are in the dark. It is the things you do, when nobody can see, and nobody will ever know, that define who you are as an individual.

    "Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases." — Thomas Jefferson

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