In between the lines

**Mke** · September 28th, 2009, 09:46 AM

So, we had a Fiber damaged up here not too long ago, and I was reading an article from a local news agency and something struck me as funny, and disappointing at the same time.

Down past halfway in the article they are interviewing a Irv Emmons, who monitors service quality for the Oregon Public Utility Commission.

The PUC is the guys who can lay down the punishment when damages or disputes happen. These are the guys who we need to get on our side.

Mr Emmons states... "Most of the cuts are made by contractors who either miss the mark or relied on locators who did not get the mark right in the first place"

And he follows that up with "Very rarely it's the fault of the telecommunications companies themselves"

I'm pretty sure our PUC is not the only one in the country that has these same views.

So.... What do you guys think?

Article= http://www.kgw.com/sharedcontent/APS...D9AGQL982.html

**big boots mcghee** · September 28th, 2009, 11:52 AM

I think most locators would be surprised if everyone knew what the corporate levels thought of what we do. I've done ride alongs with a few of our customer's corporate bigwigs over the years and none of them had a clue what we do and how we do it. They think everything should be marked accurately and on time at each and every job, regardless.

**AULupstate** · September 28th, 2009, 02:36 PM

Yeah, ok, not the telecommunications companies fault! Let's see they don't MANDATE their contractors or crews bury a 10 cent line of wire with fiber. They don't MANDATE ACCURATE maps and measurements for finding said untraceable fiber.

Yep he sure sounds like a company man to me!

I have actually had quite the education on fiber repair in the past few weeks. I work with a guy who retired from Verizon and guess what he did for 10 years??? Fiber Splicer. We got talking about it one day and how Fiber was the 'boogy man' of the Locating world due to the price put on it for damages. He then began to inform me that 9 out of ten times a fiber damage is fixed and back in service within 30 minutes (that's from exposing the break, cleaning and PUTTING A MACHINE ON IT THAT FIXES IT!!!). He also said he would rather fix fiber ANY DAY of the week than fix copper or pulp damages. So the Phone Companies claims of millions and millions of dollars to repair is HORSE SH*T!!!!!

**sprayandpray** · September 28th, 2009, 07:06 PM

I don't know about other places but down here damages have become a good source of profit for some of the utilities. ex: Tel drop repair with no excavation involved=$200: Electric service or secondary repair with no excavation = $1500 : catv drop = $150. None of these repairs require over 1 hr of manpower , including drive time. We had a single-phase primary hit - just damage to the outer concentric wires - however, the electric company had to lower their lines at that spot anyways and needed to cut the primary to get it below a gas line - Guess what they billed us - $3500 and no excavation was required on their part. There are more crooks employed by Utility Cos than incarcerated.

**shovelhead** · September 28th, 2009, 08:50 PM

It's a racket, just like any other...

We've had low profile 300 and 400 pairs damaged this year with repair tags in excess of 20K. EVERY TIME a phone cable is damaged they invite EVERYONE who works for them to partake in the hoedown!

And you, Mr. Locator are the pig with the apple in it's mouth...

**Dave72** · September 28th, 2009, 11:26 PM

30 mins to complete a repair on a fots ? Uh.. no. 2 or 3 hrs is more like it. You need to find some slack somewhere for the butt-splice. That either has to be unwound from an aerial slack storage spot, or similar in a manhole. Direct buried fots needs to be repairs with a 'length' of cable inserted in the cut. You need to strip down and clean both ends (4 ends for a 'length' insertion). Shrink em into an enclosure and tray system of some sort, then finally fuse the actual fibers (some ppl use mechanical splices.. not as optically invisible, but quicker). Once you strip the fots down to expose the fibers (or even the tubes), you have to treat things gently.. no zooming around like a monkey, they break easy.

You can be quite a bit more of a monkey with copper, but you still have to strip and twist all the pairs (or hold the twist for modular splicing). Its not as 'clean room' as fots, but its quite a bit more time consuming.

I think they tend to charge more for fots breaks, because of the loss of service on the bandwidth from major clients etc.

**GPGrasshopper** · October 9th, 2009, 02:15 AM

Originally Posted by Mke

So, we had a Fiber damaged up here not too long ago, and I was reading an article from a local news agency and something struck me as funny, and disappointing at the same time.

Down past halfway in the article they are interviewing a Irv Emmons, who monitors service quality for the Oregon Public Utility Commission.

The PUC is the guys who can lay down the punishment when damages or disputes happen. These are the guys who we need to get on our side.

Mr Emmons states... "Most of the cuts are made by contractors who either miss the mark or relied on locators who did not get the mark right in the first place"

And he follows that up with "Very rarely it's the fault of the telecommunications companies themselves"

I'm pretty sure our PUC is not the only one in the country that has these same views.

So.... What do you guys think?

Article= http://www.kgw.com/sharedcontent/APS...D9AGQL982.html

Of couse it is rarely the fault of the telecomunications companies. They contract out all of the digging, and they contract out all of the locating. That way they get to bill someone and it's not their problem. By the way, who has heard this one before: the prints are really just a guide, and should not be relied on for accuracy.

**AULupstate** · October 9th, 2009, 05:49 AM

HA!!!!! I have heard that! Also North means South! East means West! Fiber isn't on the map but it's IN THE GROUND!!.

AWESOME!!!!

**animal** · October 9th, 2009, 07:13 AM

fiber is a cheap repare 2nd & 3rd party claims are the killers the repare is quick after you get set up unlike coper

only an idiot would say it's not the utilities fault on a damage
did they make they cable toneable? did the inspector do there job (seen this alot) did they make sure the contractor put in the locate wire. did they conect all the ends & make them weather tight

remember the locator is wrong until he or she proves otherwise

**locator_smbk** · October 9th, 2009, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by animal

remember the locator is wrong until he or she proves otherwise

You said it brother. Instead of Innocent UNTIL proven guilty (like the American justice system is SUPPOSED to be) it is guilty UNTIL proven innocent.

Most locating company sups are quick to throw the locator under the bus on a damage before the locator even knows something was damaged. I have had this happen to me many times.

Most of the utility companies I deal with now put fibers in the ground with the locate points either 5 or 6 miles apart or completely non-existent. They have this stuff put in the ground with no DIRECT CONNECTION access point, and it gets hit....whos gonna be at fault, no matter what? The little old locator that is busting his ass to get all of his work done on time....that's who...

**TheCableVine** · October 9th, 2009, 07:48 PM

Around here you would rather have a gas damage than a Cable TV damage. The TV company has decided (as SprayandPray mentioned) that they are going to start charging a minimum for a repair. I think a drop is $200 or $250.

If a cable gets damaged then they are replacing the whole length of the cable from splice to splice to maintain the integrity of the system. Don't get a fiber damage. A local company pounded a sign into the ground and cut a fiber. The Cable company replaced the fiber from splice to splice. The bill was about $14,000. That is a bit more than I want to see.

**Dave72** · October 9th, 2009, 10:44 PM

$14,000 ouch ! Ya, that would be a sore thumb on the spreadsheets.. lol

Ive never seen a loss of service contract.. but Ive heard they exist. If a fots cut takes down a call center, ie.. theres gonna be some money flowing. That rolls all the way back to either the cutter or the locator (or in turn, their insurance co..).

Just another indicator of how crazy the importance of locating is, in money value and bodily safety (gas/elect hit.. ya know, they do say people are more valuable than money.. at least I heard it said ..)

And yet, its been driven down to sub-living wages in some places.. barely above a gravel-shoveler living. (* no offense to any gravel-shoveling ppl that happen to google this *)