Socialized Healthcare (like the rest of the planet)

[AULupstate]

Ok I have to throw this out there.

The Republicans make Socialized Health Care sound like this great big boogy monster that will bring down the whole American way of life (as far as our Health Care goes, go right ahead I don't think anyone will notice). They make the Democrats out to be some kind of welfare pushers on this topic which just isn't true.

How many of us pay taxes? Yeah the simple answer is Everyone! (well in theory). We pay Federal, State and Local taxes out of our income and on EVERYTHING WE BUY (with the exception of food). What do WE get in return for OUR tax money? 9 out of 10 times NOTHING. WE pay for programs that WE somehow never can be qualified for because WE don't meet the criteria, Public Assistance, Medicaid etc. etc.. Programs that let people who DON'T work recieve money, housing, medical and dental care.

DOES THAT SEAM REMOTELY RIGHT TO ANYONE???????????????

Canada (and the rest of the planet) for the most part, does this right. Their citezens pay the same kind of taxes WE do here in the states (they are just called something different like GST and PST) WE just don't get anything for our tax dollars. OOOOOOOOH a refund at the end of the year, that's a JOKE!

WHY do WE not get this kind of action from OUR Government for something that is ALREADY in place to pay for it??????? Why can't WE use Canada as a MODEL and improve on what little flaws their system has????? Why do WE not get what should be OURS to begin with?

[jjdynomite]

my guess is greed, or the fact that american people want something for nothing.

[Mr Blunderbuss]

Socialized healthcare is something that cannot be fixed. Ask those Canadians who come to the US and get better health care than they can get from their own country. The problem with rising healthcare costs in the US is litigation and not greedy doctors, but greedy lawyers.

[AULupstate]

Americans don't want something for nothing, I'm pretty sure WE want something for what WE'RE PAYING FOR!

As for Canadians coming here for health care? I think for the most part the concensus of opinion for US health care is it is a JOKE (unless you have the cash then it is FANTASTIC!). If you don't have the cash they still treat you but then the bill comes due, no cash means no payment, no payment means it goes to collection, collection means your credit is going to suffer. No payment to the provider and prices go up to cover the non payment of other people. GET THE POINT??????

As I said in my initial post "Use Canada as a MODEL"
Using something that already exists as a model means using the BASIC structure and tweaking it, adding some things and taking other things away to make it your OWN to fit needs and desires to make it work for YOU.

I did not say it was perfect, but what do we have right now? The majority of this country has NOTHING, some have shitty plans provided by employers and a relative few have good plans

[sprayandpray]

:scold::scold:Under Canada's Socialized system the older you get the less care you receive. This is because they can't raise their taxes high enough to purchase enough equipment to do MRI's, CT scans and many other diagnostic tests that are commonplace here in the USA. Elective surgery - depending on what it is - up to 2 - 3 waiting list. Be careful what you wish for.

[Rufus]

The other side to that coin is the drug companies are forced by Canadian law to sell their drugs at a certain price. Alot lower than what you can buy it in the USA for. So americans were buying it through the mail from Canada. Which is illegal. But what you people do not understand is the drug companies are charging us outrageous rates to make up the low price for their products being sold in Canada. Welcome to socialized health care!

[yahoo]

i'm not for sure how to answer this question.....i do not go to the doctor nor do i have health insurance....

[Mr Blunderbuss]

Sorry, but relying on government to fix healthcare is asking for trouble since it screws up everything else that it touches.

[RoadMap]

Come on the dems think that government can solve all their problems. Keep them on breast milk until they die! The government always looks out for your best interest. And remember Biden's line from earlier this week. It is patriotic to pay higher taxes! Now where in the hell is that written? I must have missed that section in social studies growing up.

[AULupstate]

So NONE of you would be open to a Government program paid for by taxes WE ALREADY PAY, Run by a CIVILIAN REVIEW BOARD with stipulations and regulations that they are NOT to be approached or involved with pharmaceutical companies or lobbyists of ANY kind in realtion to the Medical field? Offering a FULL scholarship to AMERICAN BORN citezens for 4 years of service as a doctor in this program? So ALL of us can have GOOD healthcare? Not just the rich or the extremely poor, because that's who gets it now.
I'm just saying there is a SOLUTION but NEITHER the Democrats or the Republicans are smart enough to think of it. Why? Because they DON"T care about Americans AT ALL.

Don't you ever watch the news and wonder WHY do we help every other country in the world with food, medical aid, temporary housing? Why do ALL of these charity groups go overseas to help starving orphans? Why we and they send money to countries who funnel it for weapons and to finance wars?

WE have ALL of the same problems RIGHT HERE in this COUNTRY, nobody does sh*t about it, nobody says sh*t about it. AMERICA FIRST should not just be a motto, it should be OUR way of life, but it isn't. Is it good for America and Americans is the first and last question that should come out of our Federal Governments mouths, if the answer is NO and they do it anyway they should be fired on the spot. No severance package, no lifetime healthcare, no benefits. They should collect unemployment like the rest of us when we loose a job. I for one would LOVE to see that, go from making a few hundred thousand a month to making max unemployment $405 a week. See if those c*ck suckers don't change their tunes then.

Sorry got of on a rant there and off the topic. Can you blame me though after this week of bullsh*t from wall street, seeing those assholes salaries and what they walked away with after running those companies into the ground

[yahoo]

i believe no matter what way we go with healthcare in the end it will be prone to human failure!!! what do you think aul????

[AULupstate]

I would rather try and FAIL than to not try at all.

When good men fail to act, evil (expand on that word) will always win.

Anyway, yes yahoo I do agree that ANYTHING that has human beings involved is prone to fail, it's been proven. However the human being is better than ANYTHING else.

[sprayandpray]

AUL, if you believe it's a good thing to feed on the government teat then Obama, Pelosi and the other left-wingers will love having you under their plan. Of course, after a while you will be dependent on them for: your job, your health care, housing, food stamps, fuel, eventually your electricity, roads, vehicles, the right to move about freely, what you watch or listen to on tv and radio, education, and nearly every aspect of your life.
It's just my opinion, but I choose to have health insurance and pay whatever it costs, even if I have to give up a night out on the town every month to pay for it because I believe I can better decide what's better for myself and my family than anyone else, especially politicians.
However, if you like the Kool-aid being served by these politicians, by all means let them take care of you - after all the Constitution says all Americans have the right to make bad choices equally.
I do have a question though, what makes anyone believe a socialized medical system here would be more like Canada's than say Mexico or El Salvador or Ethiopia or any other of the 3rd world systems? Just something to contemplate.

[USIC1]

AUL, if you believe it's a good thing to feed on the government teat then Obama, Pelosi and the other left-wingers will love having you under their plan. Of course, after a while you will be dependent on them for: your job, your health care, housing, food stamps, fuel, eventually your electricity, roads, vehicles, the right to move about freely, what you watch or listen to on tv and radio, education, and nearly every aspect of your life.
It's just my opinion, but I choose to have health insurance and pay whatever it costs, even if I have to give up a night out on the town every month to pay for it because I believe I can better decide what's better for myself and my family than anyone else, especially politicians.
However, if you like the Kool-aid being served by these politicians, by all means let them take care of you - after all the Constitution says all Americans have the right to make bad choices equally.
I do have a question though, what makes anyone believe a socialized medical system here would be more like Canada's than say Mexico or El Salvador or Ethiopia or any other of the 3rd world systems? Just something to contemplate.


We have been feeding on it...Imagine what the economy would be with out the steroids(low interest rates,easy credit, credit card and government debt on the books out the wahzoo financing the boom years since the Reagan era???)

What da ya clueless or somethin???

Our industry and and manufacturing the brick and mortar true building blocks of an economy are gone....Been gone...And we got Buttkiss but piles a debtand now this wake up call has finally inevitably arrived we will be true slaves for the rest of our years...

Government regulation will now oversee it all after it unwinds(who knows what the unwinding will involve)and things will never boom again....

Its all over like the roaring 20s...


From rags to rags for us middle classers...We got the shaft...From the beginning to the end...


Dont reach for the gun just suck it up and suffer on my compatriots...We will all be like the animals wondering around you see on the news after Ike looking for fresh water and food and nothing else...Being led around by politicians trying to reinforce us with brighter days ahead....

Oh the lies...The horror the horror....

[USIC1]

[QUOTE=AULupstate;7357]Ok I have to throw this out there.


How many of us pay taxes? Yeah the simple answer is Everyone! (well in theory). We pay Federal, State and Local taxes out of our income and on EVERYTHING WE BUY (with the exception of food). What do WE get in return for OUR tax money? 9 out of 10 times NOTHING. WE pay for programs that WE somehow never can be qualified for because WE don't meet the criteria, Public Assistance, Medicaid etc. etc.. Programs that let people who DON'T work recieve money, housing, medical and dental care.

DOES THAT SEAM REMOTELY RIGHT TO ANYONE???????????????
QUOTE]

How bout the way they do people on social security...They compensate you based only on your highest paid last few working years...You may have made and paid bookoo into the system during your working lifetimne, and prime middle age heyday...Then when your sent out to pasture those last few years- unwanted as an older worker and at Wallys whammo your f*cked for compensation...

Is that right!?!?!?!

All the money contributed throughout ones working lifetime(decades paid into the system) and some schmuck engineer could get citizen ship at 55 and blow you away on SS benis!!!!

Hows a bout them apples???

[underground quester]

Okay, interesting thread. Lots of comments about "socalized medicine" and its positive and negative sides.

I, as a CANADIAN, can honestly tell you several things about what in Canada is call medicare.


1) About 98% of the Canadian population LOVES the system and fights desperately to keep it at every election.

2) The government bitches about how much it costs. Well, its not free, was never promoted as being free. But the medical and pharmacy lobby are lobbying hard to go back to the way it was in the early 60's. Will not happen!!
Essentially, what you in America have now.

3) Canadians get NO BREAK from any pharmacutical company. We pay full bore. Places like Australia, New Zealand and Great Britain get reductions from the pharmacutical companies. In Canada, most citizens have medicare AND supplimental health benefits.

Medicare does NOT pay for things like prescriptions, etc. The supplemental coverage pays for that.

4) At present, every adult in ALBERTA (the province where I live) pays $80.00 per month for medicare and about $75.00 per month for supplemental. The latter coverage is optional and is usually offered through your employer and is often a 50/50 split on the fee. So, I pay $75.00 per month and my employer pays $75.00 per month to the provider.

5) In the 60's when medicare was introduced all hell broke loose in Canada. The doctors went on strike, people argued with one another over "government getting involved in their lives, families were torn apart because of opposing views, governments almost crumbled. It was truly something to behold.

Well, within months the doctors started to realize they no longer had uncollectable debt, their governing body negotiated rates with the government (in the U.S. that would be the American Medical Association) and there was and still is a dramatic drop in lawsuits. No one now gets bad credit ratings, lose their homes due to medical debt, etc.

6) Yes it IS true there are issues in the socialized system. It is called government underfunding so there are at times waiting lists for MRI's etc. I won't hide anything. There are warts.PERIOD.

7) Do some Canadians go to the U.S. Yes! In some cases for treatment not yet approved in Canada, or plastic surgery and to jump a waiting list. My mother had to have a hip replacement. The waiting list was 3 months. She has the financial means and could have gone to the U.S. She chose to wait it out. Some CHOOSE not to and have the money to do so.
For really serious matters, there are no waiting lists, it gets done when it is needed.

Where does the money come from? Well, each citizens pays some (some provinces have no monthly fee) then there are various forms of taxes such as fuel, tobacco, alcohol, etc. which flow in to general revenues and are then redirected to health care. It is not free, that is for sure.

But then, it was NEVER promoted to Canadians as being free. It was always promoted as we all have to pay something somewhere.

As I said earlier, 98% of Canadians LOVE the system and any political person who screws with it are seriously risking their political life. It aint perfect, but what system is?

Think what you might about Micheal Moore however,he put out a video a year or two ago looking at Britain, Canada, New Zealand and Australias systems and contrasts that against the U.S. system. The video is called "SICKO".
He laughed his ass off at the British hospitals "CASHIER" office. Their ONLY role in the health system is to make change for the parking lot.

And a final point, we have thousands of Americans coming to Canada to seek medical treatment as well. Even when they pay for health services in Canada, they are cheaper than the U.S. Michael Moores video touches on that as well.

Okay, enough already. Just wanted to clarify a few things. "Socialized medicine" from a Canadians perspective is not a bogey man. It is a highly regarded and well loved system, that has flaws.

[AULupstate]

Thank you quester. I was hoping you would jump in on this.

The people here actually listen to their elected representatives when thay say OOOOOOOHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOO that system in Canada is broke, blah blah blah, I don't know what percentage of this country has NEVER left this country to travel in another one but here's a TIP for all of them. WE might be the 'Best Country' on the planet but WE ARE NOT ALWAYS RIGHT. Believe it or not THERE ARE OTHER COUNTRIES WHO DO STUFF BETTER THAN WE DO, we just won't admit it and FOLLOW A PROVEN MODEL. Why? It wasn't our idea so we will stomp away and take our toys like a bunch of spoiled brats.

It's SO simple to do and we have EVERYTHING already in place. I would rather pay my taxes to get health care then to pay taxes so some Wall Street co*ksucker can get a multi million dollar bonus for RUNNING A COMPANY INTO THE GROUND.

[AULupstate]

By the way I think Michael Moore is a peice of sh*t and I hope he has a massive stroke, doesn't die but gets better then gets killed making a movie about how much he hates America by a falling American flag on a really big flag pole. Irony is creepy.

[sprayandpray]

I respectfully disagree, I would rather pay my $85 per month, no additional taxes, and know I could go get a needed diagnostic test run this week without having to go to another country. Also, I don't think that $4.00 prescriptions are too bad either. I wonder where Michael Moore goes to receive his Medical care? Canada, England, Mexico, Angola?