Seektech

[TheCableVine]

Apparently a seektech rep came to our little town and did a demonstration for the cable company with one of their units. The one with the 3 balls on it. From what I understand he didn't hook up to anything and just started locating the cable lines. Now, the cable company was very impressed and is now under the impression that it will find whatever they are looking for without hooking up.

Case in point: I was having trouble with a cable fiber. It came down a pole on the NE corner of an intersection and went back up the pole on the SE corner of the same intersection. I coupled both sides and couldn't get anything.

I called the cable company to see if this fiber was buried with the two cables that came down the pole and then back up again on the same corners. You would think they did. BUT... the fiber conduit was newer and the supports weren't rusted like the ones on the cable conduits. They didn't know the answer so they sent a tech out to help. As soon as he showed up he jumps out of the truck and pulls out his seektech and says "lets see if this will find the fiber". Now, I have to add that coming down the poles are power, cable tv (regular cable), and a few other fibers from different companies. Also in the ground are telephone and gas. He started looking around and after about 10 minutes of walking in circles and my 'nagging' him about doing it wrong he decides he can't find it.

Anyway, long story short... if they believe they can just hop out and locate whatever is running through their head at the time without hooking up then we will be seeing quite a few damages coming down the road. But, we won't be paying for them. :jumpinsmile:

[Goldenboy]

Was he trying to induct the fiber or just hoping that it would magically appear on the seektechs goofy looking screen?

I think you needed a cheater clip to locate that fiber.

[yahoo]

seektech huh?????? let him come this way with that junk with all our pipelines down this way and he'll be laughed out of the state before he can say hurricane gustov!!!!!!!!!

[yahoo]

his machine would have been perfect 30 years ago!!!!!!!!

[AULupstate]

Rigids Seektech on infinite mode is great for anything that has some level of power going down the line. If there isn't any it's good ole direct conect or induction (if you have to). Everyone knows FIBER SUCKS, it's glass, NOT A CONDUCTOR of shit. This guy must have been retarded or something.
My meeting with one of there reps went well. I didn't let him do anything (he's a rep not a Locator). Much like any business though thier reps SELL more than just locating equipment so they just know technical specs and are given very little in the way of training on the equipment (hey that sounds familiar?)
All in all I found it to be a good piece of equipment, a bit over priced but it has some features I was impressed with none the less. I like the fact it never needs calibrating, you don't have to swing it like an idiot because of the lack of antennas (those bulbs are CPU's) and you can put any frequency you want on it via USB cables and a computer, not to mention the transmitter is unique in the fact the leads are attached directly to it and hide inside it as well as carrying the ground rod (the Q box anyway).

[gypsygirl]

I have been trying out different locators.. and I still must say I love the Subsite the best!

[yahoo]

good girl gypsy!!! well said!!!!!!!!! i see your coming to be a fine nazi ......

[TheCableVine]

Eventually we coupled it. He got it going with the other two cables. I asked him what he thought when we were done (45 minutes later) he said he was confident. he asked me what I thought. I said I didn't like it.

The crew has been digging the last two days but have yet to get near the fiber. I'm betting it will get hit. I did tell my supervisor what I thought and he said he would follow up on it so don't think I'm just sitting back with a lawn chair and a beer waiting for the show to start. :drinks:

[gypsygirl]

Steve, that fiber IS armored right? Did you try a hot stick to couple it from the pole? If you have already called the cable company & you have that all documented... you should still be good... did they put it in or did they have a contractor put it in? I know a few of the contractors around here that do work for utility companies and if you have a good rapport with them you could see if they might know... just my 2 cents worth...

[TheCableVine]

As far as I know it is armored. We coupled it at the base of the pole where it comes down in the conduit.

I'm not worried about being charged for it if it gets hit... I just don't want it to get it. They were the last to locate it and everyone knows it.

They do have a contracter do all this and calling them (scott) would be a good idea.

[Dave72]

In those kind of cases when you cant get a signal (or perhaps its an empty duct).. are you guys allowed to push something down the duct, like a metal fish tape or a sonde on a rod to locate the path ?

[yahoo]

i would think that the duct would be to tight to push something through!!!! a great idea though!!!

[sprayandpray]

As far as I know it is armored. We coupled it at the base of the pole where it comes down in the conduit.

I'm not worried about being charged for it if it gets hit... I just don't want it to get it. They were the last to locate it and everyone knows it.

They do have a contracter do all this and calling them (scott) would be a good idea.


Ahem! C-clamp cheater clip - if you can get a coupler around it a c-clamp will fit. A small strip of electrical tape will hide the small hole.

[testtech]

I went to their website and read their information. Sounds like an interesting instrument. The display for field interference seems pretty useful. Other features also sound useful. Does anyone else have experience with it?

[AULupstate]

I have used it on a locate. Still trying to justify buying one though. (They don't have a demo program which totally sucks) if they did they may sell alot more than they do.

[Dave72]

Aha.. I didnt recognize the name "Seektech".. then I went googling. Id imagine you're talkin about the Ridgid Seektech. I saw a demo at a toolhouse (/free BBQ lunch) this summer. The regional rep said it's different because it uses audio and microphones instead of antennas.. and I thought (wtf?).. looking at the online docs, it appears pretty much standard fare (antenna) with lots of bells and whistles (the rep should read more maybe ??)

My concern would be with the display.. could it not be "wrong" (I dunno, inducted by chance into some other pipe/cable, or distorted signal by a nearby pipe/cable).. but a inexperienced locator is going to spray where that fancy line is showing.. hey cause its a picture of a cable.. it must be true ! Its not like this thing is a GPRadar .. but the display makes it looks like it ?

Anyhow, the rep said they have no demo/loaner plan.. so thats about it for the co i work for (we like to try b4 you buy).

I keep hearing about these Subsite units.. Ill have to try and get the boss to find a rep and see if they have a loaner program.

(getting tired already of carrying around that heavy RD4000....)

[gypsygirl]

I do believe that Subsite does have a loaner program. I think you would be really happy with them. Their turn around on service has been very good also.

[sprayandpray]

We started getting new RD4000's - lighter than the original 4000's but virtually the same controls, etc.

[Metroman]

Ive had that problem before.My entire county is unshielded fiber With and without tracer.You should call up the utility and have then come out and uncouple the conduit near the base of the pole so you can use a fish tape.Then youll know where that sucker is.

[testtech]

Today I spent some time with the SeekTech. In terms of sensitivity, it is at least on par with my RD4000. The key feature of the instrument is the unique display. The combination of simultaneous right and left arrows and a pipe direction display provide quick and seemingly reliable evidence of signal distortion, structure location and orientation. Constant current strength and depth displays are also useful. For me, this results in reduced time attempting to interpret the type of signal information provided by the RD4000. For example, I do not need to slowly turn the instrument and watch signal strength to determine where the structure is heading. I do not need to stop and hold a button to obtain current or depth information. By watching the position and shape of the line orientation indication and right left arrows you know immediately when an interfering field is present. The SeekTech can receive any signal frequency between 10 and 490000 Hz, so I can continue using the RD4000 transmitter. These are purchased through dealers, not reps, so there appears to be price competition and it may be possible to obtain one below list price.

[yahoo]

thanks for that info test tech!!!! sounds like a great machine..........

[ifinditunderground]

I demo'd one a couple of years ago and didn't think much of it. Constructed poorly and didn't perform as advertised. Definitely not worth the $5,500.00 price tag. Maybe they worked on it a bit.....

[testtech]

Well, I bought one. I guess I will be able to provide a better evaluation after I use it on some jobs.

[yahoo]

hope you didn't pay 5500 dude?????? ifindit...is a reliable source..... keep us updated!!!!!!!!!!!!

[testtech]

I just bought the receiver. You can receive any frequency you want with this so I will continue to use the RD 4000 transmitter. I found prices ranging from 2600 to 3200 for the receiver.

[ifinditunderground]

Ouch......we have been buying fully loaded 9890XT's for $3,600.00.

[yahoo]

testtech.........what field are you in...... contract locating????? do you mostly locate phone gas elec...........what???? just curious???

[Dave72]

What does it indicate when you have interfierence, like a 2nd parallel line ?

Id have issues with new guys thinking that line on the display is the god-given truth as to whats actually down there.

[testtech]

When you get interference the orientation of the line changes. However, there are several other simultaneous indicators. When they react differently, you know you have signal difficulties. Also, you can set the line display so that its clarity or sharpness reflects the signal quality. Thus, as the signal is stepped on, the line sharpness diminishes. Yes, there is a lot going on here so it may take more training than other instruments. However, I have been constantly frustrated by the limited capability of the RD4000 and a few others that I have looked at, to clearly communicate signal degradation, interference or changes in orientation. Based on the demonstration I had, I think the seektech will give me better information and reduce the time I spend going back and forth trying to interpret the signal information.

I will get this in my hands tomorrow and spend more time with it. I will keep you posted.

[yahoo]

ok thanks anyway for answering my question dude?????

[Dave72]

thanks for answering my question (lol yahoo)

Thats a cool idea making the clarity of the line relate to the confidence of the signal.. I suppose they could have color coded it etc too.

I dont mind the 4000, but im only doin telephone. I always work in peak, spin the antenna 90 for a check of direction, and if Im not sure of confidence Ill flip it to null mode.. if they agree then you're bang on (well, except for at a bend, peak is one way off and null is the other (( but I always forget which way is which.. lol)))

I wouldnt mind checking out a new unit, but we just bought a new 4000 (started using it 3 days ago).. so it might be a while for the subject to come around for budget again.

Keep us posted on what cool things you find tho.

[Metroman]

[QUOTE=AULupstate;6643]I have used it on a locate. Still trying to justify buying one though. (They don't have a demo program which totally sucks) if they did they may sell alot more than they do.[/QUO



Did you have a chance to use it over a joint trench area?How did the bleedoff warning respond?

I would love to try one out,always love new tech.

[Oldschoollocator]

God I really am Old school give me a 810 and a pipe horn and off I go and dammit if its got any matalic value at all I am gonna find it by direct connect or not.

[testtech]

I used the Seektech in my neighborhood. I followed the waterline all over the place on a direct connect at 33khz. I set up the instrument so it receives all frequencies transmitted by the RD 4000 T10. You can program all the frequencies you need in a couple of minutes. I brought the RD 4000 along for comparison.

Sensitivity comparison at 33 khz. At the margins, the RD may be a bit more sensitive. However, at such an extreme, the RD4000 indicators pulse rapidly so it is difficult to actually locate with the RD 4000.

Line tracing speed--Much faster for the seektech. You simply follow the line trace and continuously adjust your position. The adjustment is made by simultaneously watching the line trace and the left/right guidance arrows. Basically, you do not have to keep making sidewards passes to find the center line. Even better, when the line turns, the line trace turns. You instantly know the heading and do not have to search. At one point, I crossed a lateral service with good field strength. The line trace pivoted 90 degrees as I crossed over and then rotated 270 degrees more as I continued following the main line.

Interference--The instrument provides numerous indications of field distortion. The signal from the top and bottom antennas are constantly compared. When they disagree, the trace line becomes fuzzy. The greater the disagreement, the greater the fuzz. Also, as distortion occurs, the trace line will be offset from the right/left position arrows. To help resolve the location of the primary field where distortion occurs there are several indicators to compare. Signal strength and something called proximity are displaced simultaneously, as is depth and current. According to the documentation, each indicator is independently derived. According to the documentation, you find the spot where the greatest number of indicators agree. For example, you might find maximum signal strength, minimum depth and maximum proximity where the the right/left arrows show the center line. In fact, this typically happened where distortion was indicated.

Nice features--

Passive--There are four passive frequencies. There is a mode to use all together. When elevated signal is detected, the instrument indicates which frequency is responding. All signal tracking indicators, including depth, operate in passive mode.

Sound--Sound is completely descriptive of where the line is, which way you must move and when field distortion increases. As distortion increases, the instrument produces a high level of static noise. It produces tones and clicks that tells you to more right or left. The sound level increases with signal strength. The instrument produces a distinctive double click when you pass over the line. I have not tried these, but it comes with little speakers that you pin to each side of your safety vest. The sound comes out of the appropriate speaker to guide to you left or right.

Instrument Orientation--Does not matter (except for vertical). The antennas are omni-directional. This means the signal display remains the same as you rotate the instrument. You don't have to worry about missing a line because (as with typical instruments) the antennas are not parallel or perpendicular with the field.

Documentation-Very good. Comes with a DVD that explains all of the basics. A CD contains a more comprehensive manual as well as some articles on specific aspects of locating. There is not much technical information on how the instrument processes signals. I have not found much on line. It would be nice to know this to appreciate the degree of reliability of the various signal indicators.

Drawbacks--1) It is lighter than the RD4000 but no light weight. 5.6 lbs for the Seektech and 6.3 for the RD4000. 2) Processing speed--When it looses the signal and you must search, if you move to fast, you can miss the object. It takes a couple seconds for all the digital processing to provide a screen image when a signal is acquired. This will be an issue with weak, hard to follow signals or when conducting a general sweep. In these conditions you must control your speed.

Those more my first impressions. I this point, I would say that the instrument provides a significant gain in productivity over the 4000. Actual accuracy cannot be known until some holes are dug.

I have not covered different frequencies here or induction. I will check these areas of operation shortly. If you have specific performance questions, let me know and I will try to answer them.

[testtech]

In case you were wondering--Three orthogonal antennas. Each ball senses in all directions, all the time. You get height, width and depth. This is what is used to construct the line. As I understand, the line is constructed from the lower ball. The upper ball compares signals with the lower to produce depth and distortion.

[yahoo]

who are you talking to????

[ifinditunderground]

:thumbsup2:Test: Seems like they have done some fixing since we looked at the model from 2 years ago. But we need DETAILS MAN! LOL! That is some of the old CableVine creeping in here! Real information! Hooray!:thumbsup2:

[Metroman]

Looking forward to your follow up.It sounds like this will be my next locating purchase.