Ideas for improvement

[PowerSweep]

OK, so we have a lot of people on here that think things should be better.
What I would like to see is if there is anyone on here that has ideas on how to make things better.

What I don't want to see is the typical:

PAY US MORE
GET BETTER MANAGERS & SUPERVISORS
FIRE THIS PERSON OR THAT PERSON
KICK THIS GUYS A##


Bring on ideas that do not target managers or companies. Bring ideas that get wheels turning. Ideas that our companies will actually take a look at and find the value added by following up on it.

Think of things like:
Rewards programs
Mentoring programs
Recognition programs

Get the picture?

We can make change by offering ideas that are easy and cost effective to the people that be. Once you make little changes, you can aim higher. You climb mountains one step at a time. It has been said many times here that their are lurkers who monitor what is said. This is your chance to give them ideas that they don't tune out imediately because they are not attacking anyone. They are ideas that make a difference and aren't too difficult or drastic.

BABY STEPS!

Now I will take a seat & :popcorn:

[Chicagoman]

Bonus or Rewards Programs are OK. But a Company must stick to it word, Make it so you have control if you deserve it or not. (dont allow other locator numbers affect other locator's bonus or reward). Mentoring Programs are great. You must have good mentors for it to work.

[PowerSweep]

Bonus or Rewards Programs are OK. But a Company must stick to it word, Make it so you have control if you deserve it or not. (dont allow other locator numbers affect other locator's bonus or reward). Mentoring Programs are great. You must have good mentors for it to work.


OK, good first step.

You said mentoring programs are great.....BUT you must have good mentors ---- tell me more about this statement:
1) What makes a good mentor?
2) How can we develop mentors?
3) How do we determine who the best mentors are?
4) Should there be a standardized mentoring program?
A) If so, what HAS to be part of it?


If we want to make a change, we have to be very detailed in what we want. You guys keep throwing out the ideas & I will keep digging for more (that is, if you don't mind).

[Chicagoman]

First thing I see is we tell are Supervisor's and Key Locator's to be Mentors. Which doesnt work. There must want to be Mentors. You cant fake it. You must give them time to work with them, You must train the Mentor to be a Mentor as well, Look for out side help. (out side the Company) Maybe ask your Utility Company you locate for to get involved.

[PowerSweep]

There you go, there is the first idea to come from this:


Attempt to form partnerships with the utility companies in developing the skills of our locators.

NICOR gas has actually asked to take part in this by doing ride alongs with the Illinois technicians.

[Chicagoman]

Yes I know. I love working with Nicor. I have back them up on alot of Watch and Protects. That Dept. is short staffed.

[LadyLeatherneck]

OK Powersweep here goes. We'll take it one step at a time. Nice and slow and deliberate.

A good place to start is always at the beginning. For us that would be CONTRACTS.

Look long and hard at the current procedure for contracts. Always bid to make money and never underbid to match what you think the competition will bid. Take into account the following:

- Price by 100 ft increments per cable per ticket on big jobs, rather than by 500 ft increments per ticket. That way we won't get the shaft on long locate tickets or tickets with lots of cables and fibers to locate on them. That way it is easier to keep up with production and all locators will be treated the same as well.

- Ensure locators are not required to uncover manholes, dig up pedestals, clear brush, etc. Their responsibility is to locate. The utility owner is required keep their own equipment in sight (maybe with some kind of marker).

MANAGEMENT:

- Positive Leadership training from an outside source should be implemented. At this time, leadership training is relatively non-existant. We cannot expect to promote within without some sort of training provided to achieve our goals. Our goals should not be to brow beat locators but to support and equip them to properly do their jobs.

- Watch the watchers. Make sure your leaders are doing there jobs with a positive professional attitude. They are leaders and as a leader their first responsibility is to lead by example. Their attitude has a direct effect on their subordinates.

LOCATING AREAS:

- As best you can, pair locators and assign locators to their own areas and a backup area near home to conserve time, gas, wear and tear of vehicles (i.e. Joe lives in Area 1 and his primary area is Area 1. Dave lives in Area 2 and his primary area is Area 2. Joe covers Area 2 as a backup for sick days and vacation. Dave covers Area 1 for the same.)

- Try to keep locators in areas assigned. Let them learn their areas and get to know their contractors. Let them build relationships with them. This will all save time and money and confusion.

EQUIPMENT:

- Provide all necessary equipment for locators, including: shovels, maps, hard hats, metal detectors. Locators should never be required to purchase equipment for the company. And all equipment must be kept in working order at all times.

HOURS:

- Quality over quantity. Give locators as many hours as it takes to do the job, while ensuring a fair overview of how long a particular locate should take, keeping in mind the number of cables or fibers as well as how big the job is, and remembering newbies take longer than experienced.

OK guys - have I missed anything? Or have I gotten anything wrong?

[PowerSweep]

You have got the idea......should I ask probing questions?

[LadyLeatherneck]

Sure - can't say I can or will answer them, but shoot!

[USIC1]

Whats this I m hearing about probing???

:rotflol:

Just kidding...

[gypsygirl]

Whats this I m hearing about probing???

:rotflol:

Just kidding...


LOL... thought the same thing... but wasn't saying anything! :jumpinsmile:

[Goldenboy]

I know every state is different and the needs for improvement are different.

One thing I never understood is why the locating companies don't work with the one call centers. Here in WI we have all the planning tickets come in on 3 day tickets. Today I got a one hour relocate from a ticket that was over a year old. I get these illegal tickets daily. I turn them all in but nothing gets done. All these violations are right in the one call center's excavators guide and subject to fines. If we got the one-call center to start enforcing their own laws then it would save us tons of time. I hate when I have a route I'm trying to do and get called away from my route on a short notice ticket that is over a year old. Also taking down what people are calling in instead of just typing mark entire lot.

Another thing is the bonus plan. This is not a team game. Why are there no bonuses for going damage free as a locator. I think there should be a monthly bonus if you go damage free. I know the companies don't have to do this but some people just need a little incentive. Under all the bonus plans I've seen there is no real reason for a locator to try to go damage free. Under most these damage plans I've seen if anyone on your team screws up you get nothing, how could I have stopped the damage that happened three cities away from where I work.:bonk: If there is a big damage on the 3rd of the month what's the incentive for all the other locators on the team for going damage free.

Sorry for the long post.

[USIC1]

All kidding aside my suggestion is of more tag teaming (2 locators working together) more frequently if not permanently in alot of squirrely areas where hook up points are distant, long jobs, congested areas...

As much as I m atypical antisocial type it does boost morale to work with a fellow locator on occasion...

I guess management mentality is not only that it may lose money but they dont want to fry 2 at a time on a damage...

I have always been more productive tag teaming jobs then not seeing the light working independently on a tough project or unfamiliar area it just seems good to have 2 personnel working to figure the chaos out...

A heavily project inundated area should have a steady tag team approach...

Part of the day split lot tickets other part of day work together to maintain productivity ...

[PowerSweep]

"Sorry for the long post"

Do not be sorry for typing ideas for change. We talk about feeling better after "Venting on here" Let's feel better for expressing ideas for making things better.

Here is a question for you Golden..... What if the problem isn't the one call systems? What if the problem is the laws in each state that do not allow for any "teeth" within the one call laws?
Should the idea be that our companies hire people to lobby for tougher "Dig laws" or even just by-laws allowing inforcement by the one call center?

[Goldenboy]

USIC1 this is one point I totally agree with you on. I feel with two people on projects you really get the ground painted fast. Especially the manhole areas. Yesterday I did a locate in the morning where I went up and down the manhole 12 times trying to find the right cables that would tone. With a second guy this would have been a snap.

Even to have a couple 2 person project teams to float around to different areas doing the horrible upgrades.

[PowerSweep]

All kidding aside my suggestion is of more tag teaming (2 locators working together) more frequently if not permanently in alot of squirrely areas where hook up points are distant, long jobs, congested areas...

As much as I m atypical antisocial type it does boost morale to work with a fellow locator on occasion...

I guess management mentality is not only that it may lose money but they dont want to fry 2 at a time on a damage...

I have always been more productive tag teaming jobs then not seeing the light working independently on a tough project or unfamiliar area it just seems good to have 2 personnel working to figure the chaos out...

A heavily project inundated area should have a steady tag team approach...

Part of the day split lot tickets other part of day work together to maintain productivity ...


Whenever possible, in the area I work, we set it up to do just that. If a job is going to take one guy 4 hours; however, 2 guys can do it in an hour and a half....it makes sense.

This idea could come to reality with a conversation with your supervisor. Let me warn you though, the first time a supervisor gets burnt by a couple of guys that "Hang out" on a project, I can almost gaurantee you he won't let guys do it anymore.

[PowerSweep]

LL ... you said this
"- Watch the watchers. Make sure your leaders are doing there jobs with a positive professional attitude. They are leaders and as a leader their first responsibility is to lead by example. Their attitude has a direct effect on their subordinates."

How do you suggest to do this? ----- Random phone calls to the team asking questions about the supervisor?

[PowerSweep]

Whats this I m hearing about probing???

:rotflol:

Just kidding...

OK.... you finally managed to make me laugh!

[USIC1]

Whenever possible, in the area I work, we set it up to do just that. If a job is going to take one guy 4 hours; however, 2 guys can do it in an hour and a half....it makes sense.

This idea could come to reality with a conversation with your supervisor. Let me warn you though, the first time a supervisor gets burnt by a couple of guys that "Hang out" on a project, I can almost gaurantee you he won't let guys do it anymore.

Typically ticket loads dictate "Hanging out" can only be done for so long..
At least in my parts...

And another thing is the elimination of what we use to call head crafts or lead locators being a drawback to common sense managing...

These guys floated areas and got up with locators and worked with locators on projects or questionable locates if they were worth a crap...

They could SEE and KNEW MORE EFFECTIVELY(because they still located and spent more time to know a crew) the balancing act of ticket managing and what different project needs were and realistic locate time frames because they were involved...

Essentially a Sergeant that was on top and out on the front lines...

Our system goes from the foot soldier to the Leutenant level which creates a more distant disadvantage in alot of cases...

But who am I to brandish such structural evaluation???

I ve only got a few years of experiencing the twisted formulas ....

HA HA HA!!!!

:toasted:

[LadyLeatherneck]

That's a good question powersweep. While random phone calls would be annonymous and probably a good way to get true scoop, it would also offer an opportunity for someone to lie on a supervisor to get even for something he may not have liked. And while meetings would offer opportunities to freely speak, most people won't because there are reprocussions. Forms that could be filled out every quarter by locators on supervisors would present the same problems. But I think overall once a quarter they should be questioned to keep things in check, and not just supervisors, but all the way up the chain of command. This would avoid any chance of too much power and bad behavior.

The supervisors should know in advance of hire that they will be critiqued by their subordinates. The locators should be advised that intentional lieing on their supervisor would result in termination.

I can only use what I am familiar with to draw on. Let's look at the military. Your have a group of non-rates, a group of nco's, a group of staff nco's, a group of officers. Each group monitors the group below it. When a marine (locator) gets his fitness report (appraisal), it is written by his company gunny (direct supervisor) and approved by his OIC (DM), but presented by the Commanding Officer (DM's boss). The marine (locator) is allowed rebuttals in writing as well as face to face. The DM's boss has the final say, based on what he hears from both sides. At least, that is how it worked at my duty station. Also, everyone up the chain writes their own observances of the marine (locator), without knowing what everyone else has written, and given to the person who types it up. No one but the marine and the Commanding Officer sees the final product.

They really didn't have much of a problem with people lieing on their superiors. I guess they were afraid to. But they also built commeradory and teamwork. They built self-esteem by giving more and more authority as the marine proved himself worthy.

Maybe a combination of all of the above is the answer.

Another thing: all the safety meetings we waste time going to. For what? I know of some locators that drive every first Friday of the month at least 2 hours to get to the office for a one hour safety meeting to discuss the same things we have all heard for years, just to turn around and drive back 2 more hours to get to their 1st locate. Wasted 5 hours on that Friday and chanced auto accidents for all employees to go to a ridiculous safety meeting. If required, why not have the meeting go to the employees. Companies today have their meeting via conference calls. Why not?

Too long?

[yahoo]

this one is easy to answer....................................real teamwork is a good answer but takes time and trust to unfold the perfect plan.....what i'm trying to say if there was an easy answer i would be the best manager in the world........this is a great question....

[PowerSweep]

No, not too long!

I like some of the stuff that has been "Brainstormed" It shows that the locators in the industry aren't just bitchy, they have ideas as well.

AND WE ALL KNOW, PEOPLE ARE READING THIS!

I like the idea of using a military style evaluation program. I was in the Army and I liked having the guys on my squad having a say each year on how I was evaluated. It gave them the forum to let me know what I needed to improve upon the next year.

[PowerSweep]

this one is easy to answer....................................real teamwork is a good answer but takes time and trust to unfold the perfect plan.....what i'm trying to say if there was an easy answer i would be the best manager in the world........this is a great question....


OK.... here I go again.......

How do we go about building teamwork?
In the Army, a squad with a teamwork issue would be sent out to the obstacle course or some other task that they had to overcome together until they got it right.
So....do we send our teams out to play paintball against one another... builds a relationship with one another & builds teamwork..... or what other team building ideas are out there?

[LadyLeatherneck]

Let me think about this one overnight. My first thought is:

You can't have teamwork and commoradory if you are afraid of retaliation on the job. It all has to start with management. The powers that be have to be controlled so that they are not allowed to retalliate by all the negatives that we all know happens daily. Too much power to do at will things. There are some supervisors that border on abusive behavior. That absolutely cannot be tolerated. There are also supervisors who refuse to be positive or helpful to anyone. They hire and expect to rule with a whip to get new hires (both experienced and newbies) to obey their will! We must start with these and offer them an option to change or get out! Sorry about the negativity, but the truth hurts sometimes.

2nd thought: Positive competition on the job. Incentives to compete to do well. Always works.

But I'll think some more tonight and see what else I can come up with.

[yahoo]

building teamwork is a time............issue!!!! as well as trust which takes time...........there can be only one leader and the rest followers....i see discipline that must be implemented by the leader and in time the followers will follow suit.......time seems to be on our side but trust..............has not worked out yet........why is our office here in la so great in our state.......as long as we try to find the answer it just seems to be out of reach only God knows.....

[PowerSweep]

building teamwork is a time............issue!!!! as well as trust which takes time...........there can be only one leader and the rest followers....i see discipline that must be implemented by the leader and in time the followers will follow suit.......time seems to be on our side but trust..............has not worked out yet........why is our office here in la so great in our state.......as long as we try to find the answer it just seems to be out of reach only God knows.....


OK, time.... there is an issue. How do we keep technicians around long enough to get that time with them. Retention is an issue in this industry. What do we do to keep locators around for more than a year? :confused:

[yahoo]

a very disciplined education in other related fields besides how to locate.......for instance........social and psychological issues would be a start....truly taking the time to understand the work force and how we relate to it ......

[PowerSweep]

a very disciplined education in other related fields besides how to locate.......for instance........social and psychological issues would be a start....truly taking the time to understand the work force and how we relate to it ......


OK, we are the workforce.....that is, those of us in this forum.
Why can't we come up with what keeps us around. We are the test subjects. What is the common denominator? Is there a magic personality trait that could tell companies who to hire? I don't think so.... think back to when you first started.... did you have a clue that this was the job for you? Did you know that your traits were the ones that would help you put up with this line of work?

I am looking for the answers. We have so many people on this forum that are "experts" --- I don't mean that in a negative way... I am just saying -- WE ARE THE WORKFORCE.... who better to come up with these answers than us?

[underground quester]

Hey powersweep!

Let me wade in on this issue..

Corporate America requires revamping. It is do-able because I have worked for a company that re-invented itself and the results were freekin unbelievable!!!

First off, management must get over themselves and learn to get the he** out of their own way. Allow more decision making and idea development to come from the shop floor...not through suggestion boxes...but in real, meaningful ways. Involved employees tend to be longer term and better contributors in the long run.

Every employee must be on some team and they must be accountable to the team and take responsibility for contributions. Set up teams of individuals to resolve various issues, for example "how to better train/mentor nubes", "how to resolve a particular contractor issue", setting safety policy, etc.
Structure the teams so they are equipped and trained, get involvement from outside stakeholders (people who have an interest or can contribute to the team ie:involve contractors/utility if the issue involves them).

Management must improve hiring practices AND they must know WHAT TRAITS to hire for. IMHO, here are some necessary traits...Patience, enjoy learning, problem solving, working outdoors, must be self directed, detail oriented, work well alone or in teams, basic computer literacy, communicative, empathetic but tough skinned when needed, and more. And, we have not even gotten to knowledge, skills or talents yet.

Management for example could set up a permanent team of field personnel to come up with traits. That team could then, with guidance develop interview questions around each trait using funneling techniques to get answers needed for the interview process. The expected answers can be point rated and during the interview points are awarded based on expected responses. That way you have a less subjective interview process. It is based upon answers the Company expects to hear to make a more solid hire.

The actual interviews might be conducted by HR or Manager, but now they are more indepth & probing to flesh out the talents required.

The team feels involved, empowered and a REAL FUNCTIONAL PART of the company. I know this from personal experience.

Next training. I absolutely agree with Gypsy. I have elaborated in many other threads so will not belabour the point.

NEW HIRE AUDITS: Fair unbiased evaluations, audits, help and assistance for nubees to bring their knowledge and skill sets up to speed more quickly.

Again teams of field personnel, with training and guidance, could set up analysis criteria, rating criteria, ideas on how to offer different personalities suggestions for improvements, forms, what to look for in terms of someone who will/will not make it, etc. Again, when needed someone with training in these areas could be seconded (loaned) temporarily to a team to guide them through the process. Ultimately though, they not the mentor must make the final decisions. Do not be afraid to rate the nube on teamwork and interpersonal skills. Or, things like "do they call for help only after they have tried several things for themselves?" That way, you are teaching them to be INdependent not dependent.

Anyway, there are a hundred more areas we could explore, but maybe in another message.

Powersweep, feel free to funnel if you wish.

It's 10:50 pm and this old fart is going to bed so I will be nice and fresh to go play in the black dirt again tomorrow in +95 degree weather.

[PowerSweep]

U.Q. -- Let me see if this fits into part of your thoughts and ideas.

"Collective Innovation Teams" AKA - CIT

A CIT would be formed each time there is a "problem" at any level within the locate company. The CIT would be comprised of at least one member from each "department". The CIT would be presented with the "problem" and together, they determine the root cause and offer possible solutions to the problem. The root cause & solution is presented to the department head that asked for the CIT to be formed.
In order for a CIT to be successful, individuals at the lowest level of each department must be involved.

Are we on the right track with this?

[ifinditunderground]

All kidding aside my suggestion is of more tag teaming (2 locators working together) more frequently if not permanently in alot of squirrely areas where hook up points are distant, long jobs, congested areas...

As much as I m atypical antisocial type it does boost morale to work with a fellow locator on occasion...

I guess management mentality is not only that it may lose money but they dont want to fry 2 at a time on a damage...

I have always been more productive tag teaming jobs then not seeing the light working independently on a tough project or unfamiliar area it just seems good to have 2 personnel working to figure the chaos out...

A heavily project inundated area should have a steady tag team approach...

Part of the day split lot tickets other part of day work together to maintain productivity ...

I am going to ask out of ignorance, can you work two RD transmitters on the same frequency close to each other? Most Metrotech users know you can't run an 810 or 850 closer than 2,500 feet or so to another 810 or 850. They seemed to have fixed the problem with their new 9800 series. I have had two 9800 transmitters on the same frequency on two parralelling lines approximately 3 feet apart and everything seems to work fine. Is this possible with the RD locators? We all know most locators have a good "General Purpose" frequency that seems to cover most locates. I have been on jobsites with an 810 and an 850 together and it seems like there is a great deal of stand around time while waiting for the other guy to finish up with the other frequency. This may not be an issue at all anymore, but it was what came to mind while reading USIC's post.

[USIC1]

Military personnel comparisons arent ballpark...

Reasoning- Young naive and easily impressionable workforce...Scare tactics are effectiviely implemented to create motivation and a little patriotism to boot rounds out team work effort...$ is overlooked and replaced by a good future reference or further education to strengthen incentives...

Most of these staffers also know they are moving on to bigger and greater accomplishments and stomach the riff raff knowing there moving on...

That is what motivates military personnel...

A locator is for the most part beyond the 10 to 20 % of taking pride in protecting vital facilities has know other incentives work wise...

Incentives that drive in this trade are brought on by $$$...

The hourly structure should be accompanied by a merit system that would creat motivation and incentive...

A local phone contractor in the area i work in enhances there employees to do more with a secondary % pay for various amounts of production...This may be hard to define in locating but I think anyone producing so many damage free bill-ables should get some form of LEGITIMATE $...The hourly rate level could be kept in check if there was a greater ability to offset wages with effort and hard work...Top locators should be at least capable of doing 50k a year for our responsibilities and I m not talking wearing a miners hat either...

Hours worked should play a backseat to getting compensated for putting out and accomplishing the companys mission while reaching our personal goals $...

I could go on more but I need a break...My 2 fingers are tired and need a rest like just picking my nose or scratching my butt for awhile...

This program if established properly could attract quality people MAYBE???

:blahblah:

[underground quester]

U.Q. -- Let me see if this fits into part of your thoughts and ideas.

"Collective Innovation Teams" AKA - CIT

A CIT would be formed each time there is a "problem" at any level within the locate company. The CIT would be comprised of at least one member from each "department". The CIT would be presented with the "problem" and together, they determine the root cause and offer possible solutions to the problem. The root cause & solution is presented to the department head that asked for the CIT to be formed.
In order for a CIT to be successful, individuals at the lowest level of each department must be involved.

Are we on the right track with this?

Yes, exactly. With one exception. Adhoc committees do work well in some areas. However, for continuous and lasting improvements there must be a mix of permanent and adhoc CIT to keep the improvements moving forward. i have always known these as Quality Action Teams...semantics.

I also believe everyone in the company should be on teams for the experience and for the huge "AH HA" moment that occurs when results they recommended come to fruition.

I am still amazed at some of the ideas people on various committees I was peripherally involved with saved the company millions. And, as you stated these were rank and file no managers.

The team MUST also be empowered to implement the solutions (with necessary help from management) otherwise often it is just a wasted exercise. That will be a learning curve for any manager who is a control freak.

One large company I worked for fired all 6 of their V.P. because they (the V.P.s) believed the concept was just another fad.

On a lighter note, my role as a senior analyst with a large rail carrier became redundant when we got our claims dollars down below our "raison d'etre"
(reason for being). So they laid us off. Me and my big mouth!!!

On another lighter moment: quite frequently ideas that came up from the floor were tougher than some managers dared to think about. But because it came from the bottom up, everyone (well almost everyone) supported the ideas and there was little bitching. Many managers were seen silently chuckling!!!

Also, we the forum have a member GWJ CAS he has many great ideas also. Be sure to get some feedback from him as well.

[sprayandpray]

Well I guess I will wade into this. SM&P has a Performance Evaluation each year for it's Supervisors. We fill it out, it goes to some outside firm, and the results evidently are always positive because nothing ever changes! Every locator I talk to about this advises they were negative in their evaluations, so all of you locators up North must be praising your Supervisors to High Heaven to off-set the negative comments. My point - all this 'brainstorming' is usually just window dressing meant to give the locator a false feeling of meaningful contribution. If the company really wanted our opinions or suggestions, they would beat them out of us.

To defend my position, all I have to do is remind everyone that the staffing problems appear every year, the problem with contractors and the one-call systems remain year after year, the turnover rate very seldom improves and our Bone-us has continued to shrink and has evidently disappeared.

Happy 4th of July ya'll:bday::birthday_cake::thumbsup2::bonk::stars: :drinks:

[PowerSweep]

Well I guess I will wade into this. SM&P has a Performance Evaluation each year for it's Supervisors. We fill it out, it goes to some outside firm, and the results evidently are always positive because nothing ever changes! Every locator I talk to about this advises they were negative in their evaluations, so all of you locators up North must be praising your Supervisors to High Heaven to off-set the negative comments. My point - all this 'brainstorming' is usually just window dressing meant to give the locator a false feeling of meaningful contribution. If the company really wanted our opinions or suggestions, they would beat them out of us.

To defend my position, all I have to do is remind everyone that the staffing problems appear every year, the problem with contractors and the one-call systems remain year after year, the turnover rate very seldom improves and our Bone-us has continued to shrink and has evidently disappeared.

Happy 4th of July ya'll:bday::birthday_cake::thumbsup2::bonk::stars: :drinks:

Once again, you offer problems, but no solutions.
This thread is "Ideas for improvement"
How do we fix the staffing problem? I can say this much... we hired A LOT of people in Illinois this year, but we lost A LOT of people.
Give us ideas on how to fix that problem.... if we can't come up with ways to fix it, how do we expect those above us to do it? We are the ones out here everyday, you would think we would have a ton of ideas, but I just keep seeing everyone bitching about the problems without offering solutions.

Second, those evaluations are not "Brainstorming teams" those are just feedback surveys to indicate opportunities for improvement. A supervisor must take it upon themselves to address his/her weaknesses as indicated by the survey. If you look at ideas that were posted before you, you might find an idea on how to improve the evaluation process.

I see you have a problem with the bonus (bone-us) program, but once again.... no ideas for improvement. Change doesn't come by bitching alone. Change comes by providing the necessary people with a direction other than the status quo.

When you bitch and expect change, it is like assuming that managers above you have thought of every idea & just haven't done anything yet. When you offer viable ideas, you are providing alternatives to the status quo that may not have been thought of previously. After you have offered ideas and nothing changes, you can then ask why we have not tried these ideas & you can expect that a reply is given to you.

[yahoo]

this problem solving issue is getting deep............i think powersweep...........you have heard from some of the best minds.......back to the drawing board....

[Chicagoman]

[QUOTE=sprayandpray;3669]Well I guess I will wade into this. SM&P has a Performance Evaluation each year for it's Supervisors. We fill it out, it goes to some outside firm, and the results evidently are always positive because nothing ever changes! Every locator I talk to about this advises they were negative in their evaluations, so all of you locators up North must be praising your Supervisors to High Heaven to off-set the negative comments. My point - all this 'brainstorming' is usually just window dressing meant to give the locator a false feeling of meaningful contribution. If the company really wanted our opinions or suggestions, they would beat them out of us.

To defend my position, all I have to do is remind everyone that the staffing problems appear every year, the problem with contractors and the one-call systems remain year after year, the turnover rate very seldom improves and our Bone-us has continued to shrink and has evidently disappeared.

Hey we have had those same Evaluation up here in Chicagoland I want to say for the last three or four years. The first year there gave some bulls..t results which none of us could understand and then after that we never saw any feed back after that. We have been very negitive on ours. It is more money pour down the drain.

[USIC1]

I would rather have the Utility companys take back the locating aspect of being responsible for there own facilities...

HOW BOUT THAT FOR A POSITIVE???!!!

That would solve a lot of OUR(the locators issues)...

Then we would have more respect, better compensation, greater ability to advance after paying dues of locating if so choosing, more job security, better staffing with lower turnover etc etc etc...

No more middleman private make a buc investors we all know from history the bottom line from the tapes-ongoing low balling of compensation and benefits,disgruntled employees, high turnover of personnel, and lawsuits...

Seems a no brainer where the change needs to start... These ~5 yr pump and dump schemes have proven there meddle and come and go as fast as the locators...

:bang:

[shovelhead]

I would rather have the Utility companys take back the locating aspect of being responsible for there own facilities...

HOW BOUT THAT FOR A POSITIVE???!!!

That would solve a lot of OUR(the locators issues)...

Then we would have more respect, better compensation, greater ability to advance after paying dues of locating if so choosing, more job security, better staffing with lower turnover etc etc etc...

No more middleman private make a buc investors we all know from history the bottom line from the tapes-ongoing low balling of compensation and benefits,disgruntled employees, high turnover of personnel, and lawsuits...

Seems a no brainer where the change needs to start... These ~5 yr pump and dump schemes have proven there meddle and come and go as fast as the locators...

:bang:Yeah, there are days when it become's crystal clear why the facility owners don't want to deal with this stuff anymore. But that's why WE are here!

The basic problem as I see it is this:

The business model. That's right folks. It isn't the complaining locator after all. It's the folks who decide how this game is rolled out, modified, restructured, and ultimately, collapses under the weight of one too many shakeups and/or bad business moves.

Now we have ( allegedly..), some REAL businessmen and women at the helm.

So my suggestion for improvement is this:

Stop using the "military" business model.

Now don't get me wrong here. I have nothing but respect for the men and women who have sacrificed their life, limb, personal freedom, and the stresses of military life on their families. This isn't about military men and women. It's about the desire of contract locating companies to "co- opt" some of the attitudes, structure, and methods of the military as a means to an end. It's no accident that SM&P has almost always bumped any candidate with military experience to the head of the line, and has aggresively tried to hire ex - military candidates.

Now in the days of paper tickets doled out in the morning to the crew, I can understand the "military" model. You have to have heavy accountability and discipline to get the tickets done, because you didn't know what the locators did all day unless you followed them around!

But now, you are in "real" time. You start a ticket? You better be "at" that ticket! And you better do that ticket fast! You get a call out on the other side of town? Tough! You better do that ticket, and then get back to work! And stay out until ALL of your tickets are done!

There are no more "low profile tickets to "pad" your numbers and make you look good anymore! As a matter of fact, two of our recently appointed supervisors became supervisors after complaining about the recent changes affecting the way we do business in the field. And they both said the same thing. It is virtually impossible to do this job the way they want us to anymore.

Of course, now they demand ( daily, sometimes hourly..) that we do just that. And they don't recall saying any of the above...

You used to ( until very recently that is), have flexilbility with your workday. You could, fudge, sandbag, time stretch, post date, pre date, etc. etc.

Those days are over.

But the pressure is not.

I have never been in the military. And again, I have nothing but respect for those who do.

But the barking of orders, hardball handling of locators, and fearmongering aren't helping anything here.

The upper management of USIC needs to make a break from the past in many ways to become, as they say, the worlds "premier" locating company.

Start with acknowledging the changes in the locators regimen. And implement an incentive program that is "fair and equitable for all"

Even for the drill seargents...:thumbsup2:

[PowerSweep]

So, what are some ideas for this incentive program? We have all read several times that a new one needs to be created, but no guidance for what it should be. Let's throw some ideas out there.

Also, I would like to elaborate on how things are different. I know it was an unwritten rule back in 2005 that locators pretty much did not go to CATV drop inst. tickets. What other things have been added to locators that make the numbers of the past impossible to reach in the year 2008 and beyond?
We need everyone to understand that what was once easy to achieve now takes a perfect day to duplicate. We need to spell out what the obsticles are. If we can't provide valid reasons, other than just saying we can't do it.... then it is just a lack of motivation.

[PowerSweep]

"On another lighter moment: quite frequently ideas that came up from the floor were tougher than some managers dared to think about. But because it came from the bottom up, everyone (well almost everyone) supported the ideas and there was little bitching. Many managers were seen silently chuckling!!! "

I haver had the same experiance with this. The guys on the floor were always coming up with tougher policies than the managers. When they did, the rest of the "floor" bought into it because it came from their peers. Not to mention, if the guys on the floor said it could be done, then it should be possible. I have always said that managers need to give their people the chance to set policy....they might find themselves pleasantly surprised.

[big boots mcghee]

What other things have been added to locators that make the numbers of the past impossible to reach in the year 2008 and beyond?

How about a fourth utility in the middle of a dig season? Or a company merger/buyout also in the middle of a dig season? But I won't harp on that, I want to be a little productive with some sort of ideas, so:

Management used to "look the other way" when it came to low profile tickets and didn't care how they disappeared as long as there were no damages....and the numbers looked good. But that was then. Now we're in 2008 and being asked to go to each and every ticket (and rightfully so, our customers pay us to do it) and treat each ticket the same regardless of the work being done and for who. So basically those thousands of tickets that used to just disappear now need to be responded to AND located correctly AND located the right way. So a cable drop that used to take a minute or two now takes up to 15 minutes or more to do the right way, and the same with any other low profile ticket. As early as the beginning of this dig season I heard of people in management tell locators to make sure to respond to all of their low profile tickets and at the very least "just put some paint on the ground", and even then if we didn't do that then to make sure to leave a clear flag for the gas company since they perform audits. If we are not going to do a job properly is there a point in even going to it? So, couple together the fact that we are now responding to many more tickets that we used to with the added workload a new utility brings and there's part of the answer of why our employers need to temper their expectations with what they want out of each locator and crew. The only reason numbers looked as good as they did back in the day was because management accepted the fact that shortcuts were being taken and looked the other way. Nowadays those same people pretend to "toe the comany line" and preach like we should have been doing things the right way all along.

[PowerSweep]

I have had a lot of private messages on this one.

One of the ideas I would have to say would help after reading these messages is that with this transition team, we need people at all levels and departments. Don't just use senior managers. Have people from the field to help make decisions that work for the field.

[LadyLeatherneck]

Another thing I think management is missing is the fact that there are utilities being burried in the ground every day. That means that there are more and more utilities on each job to locate! Technology has increased and so have the cables and fibers to bring those technologies to the public and private industries. That also means there are more lines to be located on every job. When your supervisor says, "It shouldn't take you long.", it seams he's the one living in the paper ticket years. If you pull up on a job that "shouldn't take you long", and there are 10 fibers, 8 coppers, and CATV you have to mark for 1300 feet in four different directions, you tell me, SHOULD IT TAKE YOU LONG?

I also agree with Shovelhead that "barking orders, hardball handling of locators, and fearmongering aren't helping here." Grown men and women that have been in this business a long time and have families to support, do not need some ill tempered supervisor getting by with that kind of behavior over and over and over again. You say to get a group together to combat this situation, well you tell me how. Everyone is trying to keep their jobs at least long enough to find something else. They are not going to take a chance like that. And in this industry, our field is so specialized that the experience we have here does not covey to other industries, nor does it convey well to other types of companies in our industry. The "Power that Be" need to understand that as well.

Well guys, I think that IF the 'POWERS THAT BE' are listening to us right now and monitoring the vine, we should use this as an opportunity and speak up. I think we should head Powersweep's advice and give him what he's asking for. He wants less negative and more positive feedback. LET'S GIVE IT TO HIM! He wants solutions instead of complaints alone, LET'S GIVE HIM SOME! But, Powersweep, you have to take the bad with the good. And realize we are passionate about our jobs, THEY KEEP OUR FAMILIES ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[shovelhead]

How about a fourth utility in the middle of a dig season? Or a company merger/buyout also in the middle of a dig season? But I won't harp on that, I want to be a little productive with some sort of ideas, so:

Management used to "look the other way" when it came to low profile tickets and didn't care how they disappeared as long as there were no damages....and the numbers looked good. But that was then. Now we're in 2008 and being asked to go to each and every ticket (and rightfully so, our customers pay us to do it) and treat each ticket the same regardless of the work being done and for who. So basically those thousands of tickets that used to just disappear now need to be responded to AND located correctly AND located the right way. So a cable drop that used to take a minute or two now takes up to 15 minutes or more to do the right way, and the same with any other low profile ticket. As early as the beginning of this dig season I heard of people in management tell locators to make sure to respond to all of their low profile tickets and at the very least "just put some paint on the ground", and even then if we didn't do that then to make sure to leave a clear flag for the gas company since they perform audits. If we are not going to do a job properly is there a point in even going to it? So, couple together the fact that we are now responding to many more tickets that we used to with the added workload a new utility brings and there's part of the answer of why our employers need to temper their expectations with what they want out of each locator and crew. The only reason numbers looked as good as they did back in the day was because management accepted the fact that shortcuts were being taken and looked the other way. Nowadays those same people pretend to "toe the comany line" and preach like we should have been doing things the right way all along.Agreed. The amount of tickets we were doing somedays would knock your socks off. We had a system, as I'm sure many of the rest of you had, and that system is not there anymore.

Add to that, increased traffic in this area.

Add to that more f*&*$d up tickets than years past courtesy of the new hires in our one call center.

Add to that increasingly belligerent contractors this season. Why so belligerent you ask? Because they are tired of dealing with both of these companies. Tired of dealing with kids who won't work with them. We all hear ( and complain about..), the idiot contractors. And we know they are there. They come back every year, don't they? These guys are tired of trying to work with locators that show for a 2nd. request, throw paint down for 100 feet, and run away, never to complete the project. I see this every week. I respond to these second requests all the time. Whether this is just lazy people, or the pressures a locator has trying to cover too much, I'm not certain.

Add to that more prints, meet sheets, photos to upload, download, e - mails to read and respond to, damages to investigate, contractor to talk to , drop off some supplies to this guy, can you get your guy from Comcast over to, we're having trouble with this homeowner, do you know who did this locate??
etc.....

We joke all the time around here about ride alongs. The joke usually refers to wanting a secretary to ride along and do all the "non-locate" stuff this company has dumped on us in the past six years........

[shovelhead]

So, what are some ideas for this incentive program? We have all read several times that a new one needs to be created, but no guidance for what it should be. Let's throw some ideas out there.

Also, I would like to elaborate on how things are different. I know it was an unwritten rule back in 2005 that locators pretty much did not go to CATV drop inst. tickets. What other things have been added to locators that make the numbers of the past impossible to reach in the year 2008 and beyond?
We need everyone to understand that what was once easy to achieve now takes a perfect day to duplicate. We need to spell out what the obsticles are. If we can't provide valid reasons, other than just saying we can't do it.... then it is just a lack of motivation.
Sweep, for me to give a realistic incentive program proposal, I first need to see the financials. Barring that, how about going back to a program like the one we were using prior to Shively's? Worked for me then...

Also, instead of elaborating on why things are different. I'd like to point out why they are wrong, and what can be done to fix them.

I'm a big fan of Patrick Lencioni. He writes about the workplace in a very easy to understand way, easy enough even for the kid supervisors we use here!!

He's got a new book out "The Three Signs of a Miserable Job".

Buy it.

Read it.

Share it.

It WILL solve this problem. If ya'll have the courage to follow it properly....

[USIC1]

The only reason for kid supervisors is because the operation is broke-

At least at the pawn level-

Any person thats a puppet on a string (locator to first level supervisor) has to walk that grey line of -


"Do as we say not as we know you have to do..."


It s the only way to stay productive, manage expected ticket quotas, limit overtime, and retain your job...And do this on a pretty regular basis...

There is alot of blind eyeing that management does and acknowledges being okay until somebody gets whacked from being cornered by the need to shortcut ... Then the holy grail (steps of a proper locate) comes out and you get admonished for doing your job negligently...

Not to many want to supervise and dictate grey policy standards to subordinates unless there comfortable with being knaiving and manipulative themselves...


This is nt a widget factory as much as the profiteers want to make it seem...


Addressing the problem could be the start of the improvement....Hows bout we consider this a grey area of improvement by recognizing the cause of the problem!??!!?!?!?!

:Titanic:

[underground quester]

Well I guess I will wade into this. SM&P has a Performance Evaluation each year for it's Supervisors. We fill it out, it goes to some outside firm, and the results evidently are always positive because nothing ever changes! Every locator I talk to about this advises they were negative in their evaluations, so all of you locators up North must be praising your Supervisors to High Heaven to off-set the negative comments. My point - all this 'brainstorming' is usually just window dressing meant to give the locator a false feeling of meaningful contribution. If the company really wanted our opinions or suggestions, they would beat them out of us.

To defend my position, all I have to do is remind everyone that the staffing problems appear every year, the problem with contractors and the one-call systems remain year after year, the turnover rate very seldom improves and our Bone-us has continued to shrink and has evidently disappeared.

Happy 4th of July ya'll:bday::birthday_cake::thumbsup2::bonk::stars: :drinks:


SPRAY:

The concept of staff evaluating management is not a new concept nor is the perception that is is in fact "window dressing". I sometimes call this 180 degrees evaluation, it goes one way then poof seems to disappear in thin air and nothing meaningful appears to happen. This 360 degree evaluation process often occured in a large rail carrier I worked for. Outside firm did evaluations and submitted them to upper brass in H.R.
I am sure that management involved had some of the issues addressed with the various individual managers, but like you there was zero visible evidence to me that anything constructive was occuring.
This of course is perceived to be necessary by management to keep the zoo keepers, rather than the caged animals running the ZOO.

[sprayandpray]

SPRAY:

The concept of staff evaluating management is not a new concept nor is the perception that is is in fact "window dressing". I sometimes call this 180 degrees evaluation, it goes one way then poof seems to disappear in thin air and nothing meaningful appears to happen. This 360 degree evaluation process often occured in a large rail carrier I worked for. Outside firm did evaluations and submitted them to upper brass in H.R.
I am sure that management involved had some of the issues addressed with the various individual managers, but like you there was zero visible evidence to me that anything constructive was occuring.
This of course is perceived to be necessary by management to keep the zoo keepers, rather than the caged animals running the ZOO.

:cool: This is what happens with the 1 chance we get as locators w/ SM&P to offer suggestions to upper management and it is basically ignored. Our management team only wants to validate their existing methods and conditions. Most, if not all, their decisions do not reflect what the actual locator knows, and sees, to be true on a daily basis, and the Field Supervisors are too scared or green to really offer strong arguments against bad decisions.

My point is that suggestions really are ignored unless the bottom line can be improved and someone "up the Ladder" can take credit for the idea. By the way, I am trying to state fact as I see it, not just bitch.

[ifinditunderground]

Now that is what you call a God :censored: debate folks! It's been a while since one of these has crossed the boards at TheCableVine. :good:

[PowerSweep]

:cool: This is what happens with the 1 chance we get as locators w/ SM&P to offer suggestions to upper management and it is basically ignored. Our management team only wants to validate their existing methods and conditions. Most, if not all, their decisions do not reflect what the actual locator knows, and sees, to be true on a daily basis, and the Field Supervisors are too scared or green to really offer strong arguments against bad decisions.

My point is that suggestions really are ignored unless the bottom line can be improved and someone "up the Ladder" can take credit for the idea. By the way, I am trying to state fact as I see it, not just bitch.


How is it you get to sit in on the supervisor & management meetings? I would like to be in on all of those! That is how you know the supervisors never stand up against dumb ideas...RIGHT?

I have seen a lot of saber rattling - in an attempt to rally the troops, but I have yet to see you throw any feasable ideas out there. A lot of generalaties & blanket statements, but no real ... here is a step by step plan to improve anything.

You want change??????? Then spell it out! What should contract locate companies be doing that they are not?

[LadyLeatherneck]

They could start by getting rid of supervisors with attitudes!!!!! That would really help with most every issue. We are all telling you that a lot of the existing problems are with current management. The way the treat employees. Locators are not in control of anything but locating. We are trying to make a difference out here every day with every locate and are getting no support in our efforts. Locator get a primary damage on a lot adjacent to the one on the ticket (in other words, dig wasn't covered by the ticket). Damage is obviously not locagtor's fault. Supervisor says, "Why didn't you mark it? I would've marked it. You're locating like an amateur. But, by the way, make sure you get your production up. You're taking too long to do your tickets. But, I'm sending you tickets in 5 counties to do today, all of which are big ticket jobs. Better get them done and make production." We cannot control who our supervisors are. "The Powers that Be" do. It's time for "The Powers That Be" to step up to the plate and do their jobs. We're doing more than our fair share out here in the field, and we need support from the brass. I don't know how to tell you to do that. I'm not privy to corporate meetings and insight. You obviously are. Tell them to take charge and get the job done.
Obviously we all can't be gripers out here with no substantiation behind our complaints. The system is broken. You want us to fix it. I would like to help you fix it. But I can't fix it from here. They have to from there.

Also, tell them to get rid of waste. Too much of it is happening by the same supervisors that I'm talking about. They are seen going home at 1:00 in the afternoon, while yelling at locators to get it done. Locators are wondering why they are getting tickets in areas other than the one they are supposed to cover. Too much waste! Example: passing a locator on your way into a subdivision. Why are two locators in one subdivision when they are making people jump from area to area? Talk about wasting money! Power, listen to me! You know where I'm coming from here. I'm not saying all supervisors are that way. But, get rid of the ones that are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good positive first step.

[LadyLeatherneck]

Sorry for the venting Power. I feel better now! Thanks for listening.

[PowerSweep]

Sorry for the venting Power. I feel better now! Thanks for listening.

ANYTIME:nerd:

[USIC1]

Does anyone need to hear anymore from me????

:smash::crying:

[PowerSweep]

I'm not privy to corporate meetings and insight. You obviously are.


NOPE.....Just a guy trying to get everyone on a path that can make a difference.
Hard to ignore good thought out ideas. Easy to ignore bitching and whining.

[shovelhead]

I have seen a lot of saber rattling - in an attempt to rally the troops, but I have yet to see you throw any feasable ideas out there. A lot of generalaties & blanket statements, but no real ... here is a step by step plan to improve anything.

You want change??????? Then spell it out! What should contract locate companies be doing that they are not?

Sabre rattling? WTF? Your late to that party pal! We started that trip on the last board, and carried into this one.

Now you have indeed started a really interesting debate here, and this has sparked some really thought provoking posts, but if all you are going to do is poke a stick in someone's eye and call that moving the ball forward....

[USIC1]

For what its worth-

constructive venting will accomplish the same as nonconstructive venting in the long run...

It s about what makes the input-ee feel better...

Could you imagine a suggestion box in a squad bay in the service???

I was in the Corp so I could imagine...

So remember Belushi with the guy on the steps guitar at the toga party in what was it?

Animal House???

Thats what I picture upper management doing with a group of locators suggestions essentially...And also what they would have done in the suck....

Im laughing just thinking about it... And the scene in the movie...

I found it ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9JYq-mXprw

[yahoo]

what have i been missing here?????????????i ve only been gone for 2 days....this is getting good to say the least....some good posts up there guys....

[sprayandpray]

Power, my whole point has been that IT DOES ABSOLUTELY NO GOOD TO OFFER CONCRETE SUGGESTIONS TO MANAGEMENT. They simply ignore anything they didn't think of 1st. However, here is a positive suggestion if any Management person gives a s--t: Have classes early in the year - it does us absolutely no good to have a bunch of Newbies hit the field in the middle of the busy season. No one has the time to work with them, they are immediately given unrealistic loads and end up so frustrated they leave. Hell, look at Craig Harrell's letter in another thread - His goal is 70% retention up to 1 year - WTF! How about 75% retention up to 5 years? They need to re-think they're entire work force philosophy and I don't think Steve has enough "ink" on this site for me to fix everything.

Power, feel free to take my suggestion with a grain of salt, because I can damn near guarantee you that is about all any management person would give you for it - a grain of salt.:soapbox::bang::breakcomp:

[underground quester]

Have classes early in the year - it does us absolutely no good to have a bunch of Newbies hit the field in the middle of the busy season. No one has the time to work with them, they are immediately given unrealistic loads and end up so frustrated they leave. Hell, look at Craig Harrell's letter in another thread - His goal is 70% retention up to 1 year - WTF! How about 75% retention up to 5 years? They need to re-think they're entire work force philosophy and I don't think



Spray:

I absolutely agree with you on both points. It is extremely frustrating to rush over to help nubees when your plate is already full. An earlier start would give the nubees more growth time in the slower months. Additionally, an area I find lacking is that of hand's on time in the field during training rather than so much in classroom theory. Hell, get them out, working the equipment immediately. So after 4, 5 or 6 weeks they have 10's of hours hands on experience, get them doing minor field repairs like fixing leads, changing batteries, checking computer equipment, etc. Teach them to be independent rather than dependent. I have lost count the number of times nubees have phoned me for new batteries for their equipment. Each time I tell them, "in the morning, get extra batteries and keep them on board". Few do.

I also force nubees to take ORGANIZED notes and ask them to keep the notes with them. If they do, then I answer questions a second time. If they do not, I remind them, that they were supposed to write it down and keep it with them. Some new hires I find are lacking organization AND lacking motivation to get organized as long as others keep answering their questions.
I did say SOME nubees - BUT NOT ALL NUBEES.

But these issues go back to interviewing, hiring and training - none of which we control.

[LadyLeatherneck]

:waving: Hey Spray! You are 100% right about nobody caring about what we have to say! That is the way it always has been! But just in case (I have a small bit of optimism here), why don't we really give this a shot? I know it will probably fall on deaf ears, but what if just one person of importance IS listening and we COULD make a real difference? I would LOVE to hear what you have to say, even if it doesn't make a difference, just for my own appeasement. I want to know what you think! :ylsuper::popcornsmile::popcorn::yikes:

Oh, and by the way, give me back my reputation points guys! :cry:

[Gryphon]

Once again, you offer problems, but no solutions.
This thread is "Ideas for improvement"
How do we fix the staffing problem? I can say this much... we hired A LOT of people in Illinois this year, but we lost A LOT of people.
Give us ideas on how to fix that problem.... if we can't come up with ways to fix it, how do we expect those above us to do it? We are the ones out here everyday, you would think we would have a ton of ideas, but I just keep seeing everyone bitching about the problems without offering solutions.

Second, those evaluations are not "Brainstorming teams" those are just feedback surveys to indicate opportunities for improvement. A supervisor must take it upon themselves to address his/her weaknesses as indicated by the survey. If you look at ideas that were posted before you, you might find an idea on how to improve the evaluation process.

I see you have a problem with the bonus (bone-us) program, but once again.... no ideas for improvement. Change doesn't come by bitching alone. Change comes by providing the necessary people with a direction other than the status quo.

When you bitch and expect change, it is like assuming that managers above you have thought of every idea & just haven't done anything yet. When you offer viable ideas, you are providing alternatives to the status quo that may not have been thought of previously. After you have offered ideas and nothing changes, you can then ask why we have not tried these ideas & you can expect that a reply is given to you.

I would agree with powersweep that "bitching" will not render solutions, but you need to really listen to the bitching because that bitching is a symptom of the disease that is utility locating. The bitching is the cough caused by too many cigarettes, stop the smoking the cough goes away. I think in order to fix the problem of turnover, which leads to understaffing. There needs to be an understanding of why people leave (symptom), and why people are so disgruntled, and allways seeking a way out of this industry. I've never worked in an industry that has the volumn of disgruntled, angry employees as I have in this industry. I know of not one individual that works for my company that is not absolutly beaten down, burned out, over stressed, and fed up. This is not bitching, I am merely trying to point out some of the reasons you-the contract locating industry-cannot hire, and retain quality people. It is a catch 22 you cant keep the people required to manage areas, and you cant manage the areas without the required number of people. Reading some of the previous post the question was asked or speculation was made about what it takes to do this job, and how to best screen potential hires by a line of questioning (interview) to determine apptitude. I believe almost anybody can do this job if given the proper tools, support, and a work load befitting one indivual ,and not 3 or 4. So the evaluation process is not faulty, but the roles you are trying to fill. I would say a good place to start is to find a way to drastically reduce workloads. Simply answer the question "how can we as ABC locating service reduce workloads to a truely manageable level" and I dont mean a level that appears appropriate based on SIX-SIGMA models. I mean levels where guys can work 45, or 50 hours a week, and go home knowing they did a good honest days work, and covered all their bases.
So that is my # 1 solution, just answer the question posed above throwing out all preconcieved ideas, traditions, and greed of this industry.

[ifinditunderground]

Very nicely put Gryphon. I don't have the answer, but enjoyed reading your well thought out post.

[UULC]

The problem lies with the contracts. When you (the contract locating company) are making $6.00 on a power locate ticket, no matter if it is for a mailbox or for a mile long project, YOU can not make money. This eats into the locators production and then I am told they are not meeting production? Well no S@^t. There #'s are going to be low. When the whole contract is written like that and then you are fined for tickets going past their due date the company is going to lose money. THIS IS HAPPENING NOW. That company in that district will lose money everyday.

You have too quit lowballing bids if you plan to make money. You pay a fair wage, now make the work fair. Hire the amount of workers needed and quit killing your current workers. This has got to stop. Nothing will ever get better until this company learns that. This company is now a for profit and not a tax write off.


I will get off my soapbox now. :bang: :smash: :hammer:

:soapbox: :Titanic:

[Gryphon]

The problem lies with the contracts. When you (the contract locating company) are making $6.00 on a power locate ticket, no matter if it is for a mailbox or for a mile long project, YOU can not make money. This eats into the locators production and then I am told they are not meeting production? Well no S@^t. There #'s are going to be low. When the whole contract is written like that and then you are fined for tickets going past their due date the company is going to lose money. THIS IS HAPPENING NOW. That company in that district will lose money everyday.

You have too quit lowballing bids if you plan to make money. You pay a fair wage, now make the work fair. Hire the amount of workers needed and quit killing your current workers. This has got to stop. Nothing will ever get better until this company learns that. This company is now a for profit and not a tax write off.

I will get off my soapbox now. :bang: :smash: :hammer:

:soapbox: :Titanic:
This is a perfect example of what I am talking about. Thanks UULC.

UULC is pissed, and would probably leap at the chance for another job if one was available for adequete pay. This post sounds like bitching, but he is stating what he needs in order to make him happy "quit killing your current workers" in other words reduce the workload to manageable levels or run the risk of losing UULC to some other industry. This is the crux of the problem with contract locating. Why not find out what is motivating people to leave a job with seemingly great perks, freedom, pay. I mean the benefit of having a company truck is awesome right? So why would so many want to give that up? unless there was some other much more powerful reason to do so. I would say that, that very powerful reason is the undue, and un-nessasary stress placed on people to perform under situations and circumstances that they know going into they cannot win. Say you have two football teams, team one is allowed to field the regular, and recommended number of players, the number of players that have allways been the "accepted" number. Team two gets to put 3 times as many players on the field. Which team is going to consistently get the living snot kicked out of them, and how long do you think that players on team one are going to stick around to continue to lose, and to continue to get the snot kicked out of them? Oh team one will probably find some way to cheat the system and win a game occasionally, but than the penalties will begin to play a factor and the cheaters will get fired for cheating to win the game. Oh I forgot to mention, everytime team one loses they are intimidated and threatened with the lose of their position, and livelyhood, and yelled at because they did not get the total number of yards they were suppose to.

[UULC]

To All:

I WAS a supervisor with this certian company. I have since parted ways under very good terms. This is a problem I personally know about and this is happening now. A locator with this company quit last thursday because he would not put up with the crap being dished out. I just wanted to clear this up. I was not a locator when I left and I was probally one of the very few who would stand up and be the punching bag for the locator.

[USIC1]

Whoa!!! Whoa!!! Whoa!!!

So what your saying is you would ve stood up for this guy but you didnt in his hour of darkness???

I think this famous book was written many years ago that made a point in effect to the same thing...

I think the offeding persons name was PETER...

Who denied looking out for soemone else also....

This famous book was written to make a point to others in the future to be strong and make that stand...

But do to your weakness of the spirit you are attempting some kind of confession to the forum to cleanse yourself of the guilt and remorse
I spose???

Well fellow members we must all consider these character defects of UULC, and take this into account at his flogging...


:angelic:

[UULC]

USIC1:

Whoa!!! Whoa!!! Whoa!!!

So what your saying is you would ve stood up for this guy but you didn't in his hour of darkness???

I was not employed with this company last week. I know this because I stay in contact with all the locators on my old crew. He had a new supervisor and was harassed. He just decided to leave. I would have stood up for him if I was there. He was a good and valuable employee.

[Mr Blunderbuss]

When you (the contract locating company) are making $6.00 on a power locate ticket, no matter if it is for a mailbox or for a mile long project, YOU can not make money.

I told a surveying outfit something similar when I was with SMP. They had called in a planning ticket for about 8 miles of r-o-w. I told him that ATT pays the same whether it takes 5 minutes or 5 hours. "We don't make money on tickets like this", I told him. Of course, the idiot just gave me a blank stare like I wasn't there.

Going back to working with newbies, they SHOULD be hired on during the slow period of the winter months. And they SHOULD be out locating and their mentors SHOULD be working with them. LET THEM LOCATE! Our DM's answer was to RIF the newbies. HOW THE H*LL ELSE ARE THEY SUPPOSED LEARN THEIR JOB?!?

[yahoo]

newbies will always come and go....i'm starting to think there is nothing at all that can be done to retain them......my opinion

[PowerSweep]

I have this idea.... may not make everyone's working lives better, but may help everyone learn from the mistakes of others.

Whenever there is an "at fault" damage, many times the responsible locator doesn't even know it. Other times, the responsible locator is the only technician that knows about it.
I say that any time managment determines a damage to be the result of failure to perform the locate correctly the locator should be brought back to the sceen within 24 hours.
I also think that the methods the locator took to perform the locate & the proper way to do the locate should be recorded on to a DVD and the teams in the area should be shown this DVD to help improve the skill sets of the teams in the area. This is a much better way to learn from the mistakes of others - VS - reading an email or piece of paper about it.

I have a very detailed idea on how to do this, but figured you guys would get the idea.
Does anybody think there is any value in doing this?

[USIC1]

My take is management wants the train (the locator) to roll on "priority numero uno"...

The company is less concerned about the train wreck unless it is substantial (costly enough to recreate the event as you suggest)...But time is money so that discounts benefitting from sharing recreations of low profile damages that steals time...

For the most part its about business- the locating arena like most other operations you better catch on quick, and not hinder the money end of the operation with non productive events, keep those tracks lubed and get out of the way of the money train...

A perfect example is the safety stuff - How it s stressed that your welfare is the companys greatest concern which is true to the extent you may cost the company by creating liability...
On the other hand if our health was truly the companys concern would nt the insurance be more affordable to use???

JMHPerspective

[yahoo]

I have this idea.... may not make everyone's working lives better, but may help everyone learn from the mistakes of others.

Whenever there is an "at fault" damage, many times the responsible locator doesn't even know it. Other times, the responsible locator is the only technician that knows about it.
I say that any time managment determines a damage to be the result of failure to perform the locate correctly the locator should be brought back to the sceen within 24 hours.
I also think that the methods the locator took to perform the locate & the proper way to do the locate should be recorded on to a DVD and the teams in the area should be shown this DVD to help improve the skill sets of the teams in the area. This is a much better way to learn from the mistakes of others - VS - reading an email or piece of paper about it.

I have a very detailed idea on how to do this, but figured you guys would get the idea.
Does anybody think there is any value in doing this?


i think personally that is a great idea!!! in the end it is either being to lazy to do the job right or lack of experience......all locaters exp. and inexp. can learn something new from damages... good point dude well taken....

[GODFATHER]

Ok, after reading this whole thread Im amazed at one thing. No one has mentioned "Union" I know that at the slightest mention of this word we are fired and if anyone tries to get one going that they will pull out of that state (supposidly) I for one think it would be a way that the locator would have a voice in what is going on and someone to back them up. With how large the locate industry is im suprised that one of these union giants havent jumped on this subject. We all know for a fact that all locators are mistreated to the utmost power. Managment makes empty promises all year round and always will and until we as the "Locators" can get a voice in on their B.S. then this will always happen until the end of time. That is just my idea I know it will never happen and I will probably get Bashed for the idea but you know its in the back of all of your heads!!!!

[LadyLeatherneck]

1. I say that any time managment determines a damage to be the result of failure to perform the locate correctly the locator should be brought back to the sceen within 24 hours.

2. Does anybody think there is any value in doing this?

1. There is a sup and a lead locator out here in the field who will not let the locator go back to any damage. Seems fishy to me. We have always went back to our damages as soon as we find out about them. The locator is entitled to see and know what is going on. Seems someone out here is hiding something. UNDERHANDED I DO BELIEVE!

2. I agree about time constraints when the companies seem more concerned about productivity and making money for the companies. But I do believe it would be a great learning experience for everyone. I also think that there would be no possible way a sup could try to blame an employee if it were all caught on tape! The company would have to consider the time and evaluate whether they think it would be advantageous. I personally think it would be IN THE LONG RUN!

[LadyLeatherneck]

in the end it is either being to lazy to do the job right or lack of experience

OK ifindit :kiss: let's go. I DO NOT AGREE WITH YOUR STATEMENT! :kiss:

I know of a lot of damages that the company and locators have been charged with that were neither laziness nor their abilities. When locators are being pushed as hard as they are to produce and make money, and they are bombarded with more tickets than anyone could possibly get done, accidents are bound to happen. DID YOU HEAR THE WORD "ACCIDENT". No matter what the gods of locating think, people are just people and are mostly just human and trying to do the best job they can, given their situation. Some situations are better than others. If you have a supervisor that leaves you alone and lets you do your job your way, you can get a lot done. But, if you have an a**hat breathing down your throat every two minutes and screaming constantly and sending you from one end of the country to the other, and conducting safety meetings constantly and holding conference calls on a daily basis, HOW ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO YOUR JOB? That is neither laziness nor a reflection of a person's abilities. :kiss:

[LadyLeatherneck]

I ALSO HAVE ONE MORE REALLY GREAT IDEA FOR IMPROVEMENT!!!

Tell the damn Lead Locators to quit skimming the gravy tickets off of everyone else's ticket loads so he/she can look like he/she's actually making production. When in fact he/she is doing absolutely nothing and taking credit on a daily basis for what a great job he/she is doing!!!!!!!!!! I AM SICK TO DEATH OF THIS SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pardon my french.

[PowerSweep]

I thought about the overhead involved with this. I know we can't bring a whole team to a dmage location, but I do believe there is value in showing the whole team a damage. I think the reduced damage costs would pay for the cost of the video cameras and DVDs.

Now that I think about it, I did bring a whole team to the site of a damage once for a tailgate..... never had that type of damage again.

[underground quester]

I ALSO HAVE ONE MORE REALLY GREAT IDEA FOR IMPROVEMENT!!!

Tell the damn Lead Locators to quit skimming the gravy tickets off of everyone else's ticket loads so he/she can look like he/she's actually making production. When in fact he/she is doing absolutely nothing and taking credit on a daily basis for what a great job he/she is doing!!!!!!!!!! I AM SICK TO DEATH OF THIS SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pardon my french.


It's going to get awful interesting around this forum when Locating Larry learns to be assertive rather than the somewhat shy person she appears to be..... just having fun with ya L.L. :D :happy:

[underground quester]

1. There is a sup and a lead locator out here in the field who will not let the locator go back to any damage. Seems fishy to me. We have always went back to our damages as soon as we find out about them. The locator is entitled to see and know what is going on. Seems someone out here is hiding something. UNDERHANDED I DO BELIEVE!

2. I agree about time constraints when the companies seem more concerned about productivity and making money for the companies. But I do believe it would be a great learning experience for everyone. I also think that there would be no possible way a sup could try to blame an employee if it were all caught on tape! The company would have to consider the time and evaluate whether they think it would be advantageous. I personally think it would be IN THE LONG RUN!


Had an interesting situation arise a few years back regarding item number one. The locator who experienced the damage apparently lost it at the scene of the hit and directed some unflattering verbage toward a few select individuals. While that may at some level be understandable it adds nothing to the investigation but additional stress. It also has the tendency to harden everyones positions.

In our company at this time, the individual with the hit is NOT invited to the scene. They may be asked their opinion or to justify their locate, say the next day but generally, assessments are made and that is that.

I agree that the individual should be given an opportunity to substantiate their locate, but, if that individual cannot do it in a professional manner, then they probably should not be there.

Having said that do I agree that our present system works well. No, I do not. I was charged with a hit a while back that I thought was Bulls**t, and I had no ability to defend myself as the decision had already been made. When a utility company tells you a line is abandoned and you take their word for it, they rightly should stand behind their word. That did not happen.

2) Item 2 in theory is a great idea as it has the potential to enhance learning. However, it very quickly could degenerate to a not so subtle way to embarass and punish locators who have hits. No one likes their dirty laundry aired.

However, these videos could be used anonamously say in training situations or perhaps in a safety meeting 6 or eight months after the event to lessen the impact.

Just my humble thoughts, not saying I am right here...

[GODFATHER]

I ALSO HAVE ONE MORE REALLY GREAT IDEA FOR IMPROVEMENT!!!

Tell the damn Lead Locators to quit skimming the gravy tickets off of everyone else's ticket loads so he/she can look like he/she's actually making production. When in fact he/she is doing absolutely nothing and taking credit on a daily basis for what a great job he/she is doing!!!!!!!!!! I AM SICK TO DEATH OF THIS SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pardon my french.


Hmmmm..... Lead Techs around here have our own B.S. tickets to worry about in fact we have some of the worst areas in town so I would say death to your leads if they have the ability to skim work off the other people????

Our problem is the Sup giving the gravy to the newbies. I know they need to have them to learn but for gods sake dont give them all to them LOL.... We have to make up our numbers from the Poo Poo tickets somewhere....

[thejoker]

Here is a couple of ideas...

First off plan your attrition. Hire the appropriate amount of people to begin with and have them in place prior to the rush. Do not be afraid to hire part time help. Use them tuesday,wedsday,thursday, . Find soemone who that schedule will work for. A retired bell tech?:) Then you have a couple of those on the crew they pull up the slack on the 3 busy days.

Second off

In any district. If any supervisor group has to work a mandatory weekend. All of the managment staff from the rm down including the trainers, and quality should be required to work it too. This would result in a couple of things. If the r.m. the d.m., 5 supervisor. And the director of quality 2 damage prevention guys and the trainer are all locating there. That would be 11 more techs locating in that area that weekend. Even if they only did 10 tickets a piece it would e 110 tickets done. In some routes thats alot.

Second it would put all of us in the same boat. If we are mandatory we are all mandatory. It makes the problem everyones, and showes the field that managment is also stuck in this. And I know if all of managment is on Mandatory weekends all summer it would make it a top priority to be staffed and trainned going forward.

I guess in a nut shell. HIre for the attrition before it turns into a disaster. And if you did'nt hire. Get in the boat and help row!!!!!!:Titanic:

[GODFATHER]

Yeah but if they get in the boat we know for a fact its gonna sink, havent you seen some of the guys???? LMMFAO!!!!

[sprayandpray]

Here is a couple of ideas...

First off plan your attrition. Hire the appropriate amount of people to begin with and have them in place prior to the rush. Do not be afraid to hire part time help. Use them tuesday,wedsday,thursday, . Find soemone who that schedule will work for. A retired bell tech?:) Then you have a couple of those on the crew they pull up the slack on the 3 busy days.

Second off

In any district. If any supervisor group has to work a mandatory weekend. All of the managment staff from the rm down including the trainers, and quality should be required to work it too. This would result in a couple of things. If the r.m. the d.m., 5 supervisor. And the director of quality 2 damage prevention guys and the trainer are all locating there. That would be 11 more techs locating in that area that weekend. Even if they only did 10 tickets a piece it would e 110 tickets done. In some routes thats alot.

Second it would put all of us in the same boat. If we are mandatory we are all mandatory. It makes the problem everyones, and showes the field that managment is also stuck in this. And I know if all of managment is on Mandatory weekends all summer it would make it a top priority to be staffed and trainned going forward.

I guess in a nut shell. HIre for the attrition before it turns into a disaster. And if you did'nt hire. Get in the boat and help row!!!!!!:Titanic:

:iagree:100% :good::applause::applause::applause:

[GODFATHER]

Yeah he has brought that idea up before and of course nothing came of it....

[BruceAlmighty]

Here is a couple of ideas...

First off plan your attrition. Hire the appropriate amount of people to begin with and have them in place prior to the rush. Do not be afraid to hire part time help. Use them tuesday,wedsday,thursday, . Find soemone who that schedule will work for. A retired bell tech?:) Then you have a couple of those on the crew they pull up the slack on the 3 busy days.

Second off

In any district. If any supervisor group has to work a mandatory weekend. All of the managment staff from the rm down including the trainers, and quality should be required to work it too. This would result in a couple of things. If the r.m. the d.m., 5 supervisor. And the director of quality 2 damage prevention guys and the trainer are all locating there. That would be 11 more techs locating in that area that weekend. Even if they only did 10 tickets a piece it would e 110 tickets done. In some routes thats alot.

Second it would put all of us in the same boat. If we are mandatory we are all mandatory. It makes the problem everyones, and showes the field that managment is also stuck in this. And I know if all of managment is on Mandatory weekends all summer it would make it a top priority to be staffed and trainned going forward.

I guess in a nut shell. HIre for the attrition before it turns into a disaster. And if you did'nt hire. Get in the boat and help row!!!!!!:Titanic:

Yes if upper management would get off there lazy &%$# and work every Sat them we all know things would be diff.:breakcomp:

[USIC1]

Here is a couple of ideas...

First off plan your attrition. Hire the appropriate amount of people to begin with and have them in place prior to the rush. Do not be afraid to hire part time help. Use them tuesday,wedsday,thursday, . Find soemone who that schedule will work for. A retired bell tech?:) Then you have a couple of those on the crew they pull up the slack on the 3 busy days.

Second off

In any district. If any supervisor group has to work a mandatory weekend. All of the managment staff from the rm down including the trainers, and quality should be required to work it too. This would result in a couple of things. If the r.m. the d.m., 5 supervisor. And the director of quality 2 damage prevention guys and the trainer are all locating there. That would be 11 more techs locating in that area that weekend. Even if they only did 10 tickets a piece it would e 110 tickets done. In some routes thats alot.

Second it would put all of us in the same boat. If we are mandatory we are all mandatory. It makes the problem everyones, and showes the field that managment is also stuck in this. And I know if all of managment is on Mandatory weekends all summer it would make it a top priority to be staffed and trainned going forward.

I guess in a nut shell. HIre for the attrition before it turns into a disaster. And if you did'nt hire. Get in the boat and help row!!!!!!:Titanic:


I want to be on that floater/part timer crew...


Remember what floaters were in the old public pool days???

A terd randomly floating around in a big pool of water...

Well????


:noway:

[GODFATHER]

So ya callin yersef a turd there buddy LMAO!!!!

[thejoker]

you use the part time help to assit in heavy work load areas...You could also send them to other areas/districts to help out. I worked on a crew that did this...Had 2 part time people. 1 of them did not clear a single ticket in that area all year. He was helping in another area. The second worked 3 days a week. The crew worked 2 mandatory saturdays all summer and that was in another crews area. They bonused every month. IT WORKED> They also had zero attrition for the year. That sir was the best year I worked for smp. and several of us in freeport thought the same thing....

I want to be on that floater/part timer crew...


Remember what floaters were in the old public pool days???

A terd randomly floating around in a big pool of water...

Well????


:noway:

[thejoker]

1. Regarding the bonus system. It needs to be split into 2 categorys that you can get bonus in.

Part 1 is a team based bonus so that when the team comes together you make a bonus check this will encourage people to work together. That should be 40% of the bonus.

Then part 2 should be a individual bonus worth 60% of the bonus. This would be along the lines of you set personal goals. If they have a good damage ratio. And have performed well. Reward that. This way those that have worked hard are not given a negative reward by no bonus from there positive results. :ylsuper: I know Iknow. Mangaments answer is that if the team does not bonus they will put pressure on those not performing.:scold: And while it sounds good it just dont work without something in place to make the individual WANT to do well. Not everyone or every locator is self motovated to do well. So a individual reward will keep the hard workers going. And encourage those not performing to do just that...Perform......And you will not loose the intrest of those that are working hard because you are giving them 60% of a bonus for doing that.....

And before someone says its a bonus check. And is not a part of your wage. For years....I have been told it is part of my wage. From several managers. While you can only make 3% raise if you perform you will get a bonus....so lets make it positive.




Once again, you offer problems, but no solutions.
This thread is "Ideas for improvement"
How do we fix the staffing problem? I can say this much... we hired A LOT of people in Illinois this year, but we lost A LOT of people.
Give us ideas on how to fix that problem.... if we can't come up with ways to fix it, how do we expect those above us to do it? We are the ones out here everyday, you would think we would have a ton of ideas, but I just keep seeing everyone bitching about the problems without offering solutions.

Second, those evaluations are not "Brainstorming teams" those are just feedback surveys to indicate opportunities for improvement. A supervisor must take it upon themselves to address his/her weaknesses as indicated by the survey. If you look at ideas that were posted before you, you might find an idea on how to improve the evaluation process.

I see you have a problem with the bonus (bone-us) program, but once again.... no ideas for improvement. Change doesn't come by bitching alone. Change comes by providing the necessary people with a direction other than the status quo.

When you bitch and expect change, it is like assuming that managers above you have thought of every idea & just haven't done anything yet. When you offer viable ideas, you are providing alternatives to the status quo that may not have been thought of previously. After you have offered ideas and nothing changes, you can then ask why we have not tried these ideas & you can expect that a reply is given to you.

[theone]

Any incentive besides overtime would be better then the prospect of an unachievable goal. Or constant promises that never make it past a lowly locator. no offense to all the locators. I dont mind being the boots or the back bone of the company but I refuse to be the asshole of the company.

[TechMaster]

I would agree with powersweep that "bitching" will not render solutions, but you need to really listen to the bitching because that bitching is a symptom of the disease that is utility locating. The bitching is the cough caused by too many cigarettes, stop the smoking the cough goes away. I think in order to fix the problem of turnover, which leads to understaffing. There needs to be an understanding of why people leave (symptom), and why people are so disgruntled, and allways seeking a way out of this industry. I've never worked in an industry that has the volumn of disgruntled, angry employees as I have in this industry. I know of not one individual that works for my company that is not absolutly beaten down, burned out, over stressed, and fed up. This is not bitching, I am merely trying to point out some of the reasons you-the contract locating industry-cannot hire, and retain quality people. It is a catch 22 you cant keep the people required to manage areas, and you cant manage the areas without the required number of people. Reading some of the previous post the question was asked or speculation was made about what it takes to do this job, and how to best screen potential hires by a line of questioning (interview) to determine apptitude. I believe almost anybody can do this job if given the proper tools, support, and a work load befitting one indivual ,and not 3 or 4. So the evaluation process is not faulty, but the roles you are trying to fill. I would say a good place to start is to find a way to drastically reduce workloads. Simply answer the question "how can we as ABC locating service reduce workloads to a truely manageable level" and I dont mean a level that appears appropriate based on SIX-SIGMA models. I mean levels where guys can work 45, or 50 hours a week, and go home knowing they did a good honest days work, and covered all their bases.
So that is my # 1 solution, just answer the question posed above throwing out all preconcieved ideas, traditions, and greed of this industry.

I agree with hireing enough peeps to do the job. However when this happens all those peeps that were complaining about needing help notice their ot going down. Then those same peeps start complaining that they are not makeing enough hours to pay their bills. It is lmost a catch 22 situation. Me myself I have been doing this long enough that OT is nice however it is not a must. If companies could find away to get everyone happy. It would be nice.

[USIC1]

I will never be happy...

To old, ornery, and worn down from lifes BS...

I made the attempt for a period of time but those fleeting moments of bliss were hardly worth the price and effort to chase...

:tease:

[GODFATHER]

The only time I have been happy with this or any other locate company I have been with during the past 13yrs is when I was out of town and at the strip club and had some nice P@#$Y in my face ;)

[underground quester]

Originally Posted by Gryphon
I would agree with powersweep that "bitching" will not render solutions, but you need to really listen to the bitching because that bitching is a symptom of the disease that is utility locating. The bitching is the cough caused by too many cigarettes, stop the smoking the cough goes away. I think in order to fix the problem of turnover, which leads to understaffing. There needs to be an understanding of why people leave (symptom), and why people are so disgruntled, and allways seeking a way out of this industry. I've never worked in an industry that has the volumn of disgruntled, angry employees as I have in this industry. I know of not one individual that works for my company that is not absolutly beaten down, burned out, over stressed, and fed up. This is not bitching, I am merely trying to point out some of the reasons you-the contract locating industry-cannot hire, and retain quality people. It is a catch 22 you cant keep the people required to manage areas, and you cant manage the areas without the required number of people.

Reading some of the previous post the question was asked or speculation was made about what it takes to do this job, and how to best screen potential hires by a line of questioning (interview) to determine apptitude. I believe almost anybody can do this job if given the proper tools, support, and a work load befitting one indivual ,and not 3 or 4. So the evaluation process is not faulty, but the roles you are trying to fill.

I would say a good place to start is to find a way to drastically reduce workloads. Simply answer the question "how can we as ABC locating service reduce workloads to a truely manageable level" and I dont mean a level that appears appropriate based on SIX-SIGMA models. I mean levels where guys can work 45, or 50 hours a week, and go home knowing they did a good honest days work, and covered all their bases.
So that is my # 1 solution, just answer the question posed above throwing out all preconcieved ideas, traditions, and greed of this industry.


GRYPHON:

Wow, lots to read and digest in this post. I certainly agree with where you are going in relation to paragraph one (I broke your message apart to glean a more thorough understanding of what you were saying). In fact, I have said the very same thing in other posts. It is not rocket science...figure out what is causing the work related problems/stressors...fix them and by and large the issues/bitching will disappear. As well, people in the field will also appreciate a manager who IS SEEN TO BE TRYING TO REMEDY ISSUES. However, blowing smoke up peoples butts about trying to solve problems is pretty transparent and people will see through those easily. Only genuine efforts will be rewarded.

Your thoughts on finding out why people are leaving is excellent, it gives management some insight AFTER THE FACT. They still NEED to do this AND to translate the information gleaned from the exit interviews into meaningful data that can be used during the hiring process. MANAGEMENT ABSOLUTELY HAS TO KNOW what personality types and work traits an individual MUST possess in order to function in this job. I do not agree that "almost anyone can do this job." That is akin to saying ALMOST everyone can be a Carpenter, Sheet Metal worker or a Plumber. I suppose it is true but how well they can function is of major importance as well.
Management must interview and follow up on information learned in the interview to determine how exact it is and know things like how much time they missed and why, how much work the individual accomplished in the average day, can they work independently, do they know what "teamwork" means and do they truly live it? These questions are germane to the overall success of the hire I believe.

Screening is an important attribute in the overall success of the corporation. That MOST management I have met over the years does not understand this, I find appalling. As a manager, you MUST know what qualities a person has to bring to the job, what related work skills will work best, what level of stress that person can live under...long term. It is also incumbent upon management to know what constitutes adequate training and provide it, give ongoing updated meaningful training, provide field personnel with adequate time to render adequate field support to new personnel and of course as you clearly point out workloads that are appropriate.

There are ways as well to satisy those who want the hours and those who see quality of life as an over riding issue and therefore want less hours.

Anyway, we agree so I will not belabor the point.

Great post GRYPHON. Had me thinking it over for a few days now.

[PowerSweep]

I do enjoy this thread...... every once in a while, someone slaps a well thought out post down on the board & provokes others to follow suit.

[GODFATHER]

You can "THROW" out good ideas till your blue in the face and i guarantee you they will never try a single one of them mainly because it wasnt their idea....

The industry will never change there is nothing we as locators or supervisors can do about it, that is entirely up to management. You will also give them the answers they need to make this industry the best thing in the world and they will follow suit with yet another question and numbers that they pull out of thier asses.

This is the new Kansas you can run Wichita Ks with 4 people no more. I did the research and Wichita has never gotten that many tickets.

Yet another Manager that was full of the preverbial Shit. This market down here has never done anything but grow the city since I came back from Chicago has gotten crazy stupid huge I dont know where they are all coming from but hell its job security.

This man was telling us this while I had over 400 tickets on my board at one time.

So it all comes down to its on their plate to do with and they choose not to do or care anything about it and never will, thus why all of us are looking for other jobs....

[thejoker]

I get a good laugh out of those locators too. To many hours to much......to much.....:bang::bang:

Then when the help is here....I can'nt pay my bills. HELP.....You should plan your budget arround 40 hours. Above that is gravy and should hit the bank accouant.:D




I agree with hireing enough peeps to do the job. However when this happens all those peeps that were complaining about needing help notice their ot going down. Then those same peeps start complaining that they are not makeing enough hours to pay their bills. It is lmost a catch 22 situation. Me myself I have been doing this long enough that OT is nice however it is not a must. If companies could find away to get everyone happy. It would be nice.

[old 82]

The best year I have had in the locating business, was when the manager hired temp help under the table. And when the company lifted the hiring freeze in the spring new guys were trained and ready to go.:rotflol:

[thejoker]

:thumbsup2:I do remember that....ANO to the rescue...:D
That was a good year :thumbsup2:


The best year I have had in the locating business, was when the manager hired temp help under the table. And when the company lifted the hiring freeze in the spring new guys were trained and ready to go.:rotflol:

[BruceAlmighty]

The way I see it is if management don't get help soon. Kansas will be in the toilet. :yahoo:

[GODFATHER]

Kansas is the toilet and were the Poo gettin flushed ;)