Drawings?

[Goldenboy]

I see alot of members refer to drawings of locates. Are you required to do a drawing of what you've located when you finish the locate? I guess if this is the case it seems really silly to me. We take digital pictures of all our locates and it would seem like a picture would do alot more justice than a drawing.

[TBONE]

We have to take pictures and draw a manifest then take a picture of the manifest that is our policy for CLS

[locator_smbk]

Drawings are merely a waste of time for lot tickets.

I can draw stuff on a piece of paper all day long, and it doesn't prove anything. Thats the old Bellsouth crap for ya.

I havent made a drawing in well over 18 months now. It saves me a total of probably 30 minutes a day, so I can get another ticket done....

[Goldenboy]

That just seems like a total waste of time. A drawing wouldn't hold up in court. And if you have the digital pictures then you would think it would be just wasting time doing a drawing. I can't even imagine how long it would take to do a drawing if you did a big utility upgrade ticket or pole project.

Is this a CLS requirement or is it a requirement of one of the utility companies you work for in the area?

[beyond help]

Most toddlers draw better than me. Hell, I can not even draw a straight line.:drinks:

[TBONE]

That just seems like a total waste of time. A drawing wouldn't hold up in court. And if you have the digital pictures then you would think it would be just wasting time doing a drawing. I can't even imagine how long it would take to do a drawing if you did a big utility upgrade ticket or pole project.

Is this a CLS requirement or is it a requirement of one of the utility companies you work for in the area?


AT&T requires it

[Goldenboy]

AT&T requires it


That's just plain retarded. I'm really glad that AT&T out here doesn't require it. So do you have to draw all the utilities or just the AT&T?

[TBONE]

we are pushing really hard to get rid of it cause like you said they dont mean jack in court :rules:

[underground quester]

Interesting post Golden and really eye opening replies.

We are required to do a drawing and take tons of measurements off of fixed objects. We do not take pictures of a locate except for hit investigations.

This has been the norm since 1 calls' inception here.

The contractors want that piece of paper and so do the consortium members to prove liability and the fact I suppose that we actually did the locate.

In the event of cancellation, work is completed, no shows, etc. we simply state on the tkt. what the occurance is and if available have the contractor sign off. We still get paid something for these tkts but not much.

[TBONE]

We started the pictures as an experiment and once the customers seen how easy it was to prove that the cables wqere marked correctly the kinda became required they can really save your but they have mine even if your company doesent require them get yourself a cheap digital camera and some blank CDs and cover your own but cause noone else will:good:

[underground quester]

We started the pictures as an experiment and once the customers seen how easy it was to prove that the cables wqere marked correctly the kinda became required they can really save your but they have mine even if your company doesent require them get yourself a cheap digital camera and some blank CDs and cover your own but cause noone else will:good:



Gosh T. ALL my contractors stand behind me when it comes to hits. Have not had one yet that did not stand behind me.


FAR BEHIND ME THAT IS...when the bus is barreling down on me.:(

[TBONE]

All it takes is the right damage to turn a friend into a foe seen it contractor claims to be tight with you and bam Fiber Cable hit ..then all hell breaks loose and he takes blame for nothing :cry:

[big boots mcghee]

All it takes is the right damage to turn a friend into a foe seen it contractor claims to be tight with you and bam Fiber Cable hit ..then all hell breaks loose and he takes blame for nothing :cry:

Can you blame any one of them, though? When push comes to shove, who are you gonna protect? The contractor that you've made buddy buddy with, or the company that signs your paychecks?

[underground quester]

Just thought maybe I would clarify here.

Was trying to say in a round about way that my contractors stand behind me every time...right before they throw me under the bus...

[Goldenboy]

We started the pictures as an experiment and once the customers seen how easy it was to prove that the cables wqere marked correctly the kinda became required they can really save your but they have mine even if your company doesent require them get yourself a cheap digital camera and some blank CDs and cover your own but cause noone else will:good:

I must agree that pictures are a must. I just figured everyone took pictures. I take 20-30 pictures on a residental lot ticket and on a long project I can take 300 or more pictures. Our customers require post locate pictures on every damage.

[beyond help]

If you don't have pictures, you might as well call it a damage. There is no other way to prove it was marked before it was damaged.

[underground quester]

If you don't have pictures, you might as well call it a damage. There is no other way to prove it was marked before it was damaged.

Hey there Beyond:

As usual, I certainly cannot argue with your logic. We do seem to eat a lot of hits I don't think we should.

Question though, everyone here gets hung up on the utilities exact location. When you take pictures, is this something you concern yourself with? If so, how do you accomplish the measurement proof in the photo?

If not, how do you establish exact location of a utility from the photos when in a court of law?

How do you log photos and where do you store the CD's (at the office). How do you know which CD a particular locate is on...do you have some kind of sequencing or numbering method?

[beyond help]

Hey there Beyond:

As usual, I certainly cannot argue with your logic. We do seem to eat a lot of hits I don't think we should.

Question though, everyone here gets hung up on the utilities exact location. When you take pictures, is this something you concern yourself with? If so, how do you accomplish the measurement proof in the photo?

If not, how do you establish exact location of a utility from the photos when in a court of law?

How do you log photos and where do you store the CD's (at the office). How do you know which CD a particular locate is on...do you have some kind of sequencing or numbering method? There is not much of a way to show measurements in a photo, but to show that it was close in a lot of cases will suffice. Taking the damage pics while the utility is exposed is huge. You can hook up and compare what you are locating post damage to where the remaining marks are (if still there). Or you can compare your pre dig pics to the pics after the damage. In most cases, the latter will almost always be good in a court of law (as long as there is some kind of distinguishable landmark). SM&P went to a system that automatically download the pics to each individual ticket, and if there is a damage, it will attach the damage pics to those as well (OF COURSE, WHEN IT DECIDES TO WORK). This has made it a hell of a lot better than it used to be. Still have quite a few bugs to work out though

[2RUDE]

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[Goldenboy]

Holy ****! Doesn't 20-30 pics of a single lot seem a bit excessive? So you're more of a photgrapher than a utility locator by the sounds of it?

Where we work if we don't have a picture of the spot of the damage we pay for it. I make sure I have a picture of every line I mark. We have pretty good digital cameras so it takes no time at all to take the pictures.

[yahoo]

we have to draw a sketch per our contract....this is stupid to me when we produce pics of the locate.....

[underground quester]

Where we work if we don't have a picture of the spot of the damage we pay for it. I make sure I have a picture of every line I mark. We have pretty good digital cameras so it takes no time at all to take the pictures.


Golden: I am trying to visualize this on a longer locate or in longer congested areas. Must be really tough to "know" in advance where the Track hoe is going to dig (I am kidding of course!) but have you ever had to eat a "HIT" that you knew was not the fault of the locate?

That seems pretty arcane to me. When a hit happens the root cause should be looked for and preventive mesaures put in place to prevent/reduce the likelyhood of reoccurance.

If the contractor is lucky enough for you not to have a photo he walks away laughing and knows he dodged the silver bullet! WTF?:bang:

That is just unreasonable and unfair to me.

[sprayandpray]

Golden: I am trying to visualize this on a longer locate or in longer congested areas. Must be really tough to "know" in advance where the Track hoe is going to dig (I am kidding of course!) but have you ever had to eat a "HIT" that you knew was not the fault of the locate?

That seems pretty arcane to me. When a hit happens the root cause should be looked for and preventive mesaures put in place to prevent/reduce the likelyhood of reoccurance.

If the contractor is lucky enough for you not to have a photo he walks away laughing and knows he dodged the silver bullet! WTF?:bang:

That is just unreasonable and unfair to me.


UG, pardon me but you're not seeing the bigger picture. If the client, generally AT&T, can find fault with your pictures, either pre-digs or investigation shots, the Locating Company is going to pay for the damage even if the investigation establishes a strong case that the contractor was at fault - it is easier to collect from the locate co. than the contractor.

[underground quester]

UG, pardon me but you're not seeing the bigger picture. If the client, generally AT&T, can find fault with your pictures, either pre-digs or investigation shots, the Locating Company is going to pay for the damage even if the investigation establishes a strong case that the contractor was at fault - it is easier to collect from the locate co. than the contractor.


Spray:

Yes, I agree. It strikes me we have the same situation here.

My point I guess in a convoluted kind of way is "It's B.S., it's unfair, but it's not likely to change any time soon."

[beyond help]

Here's another one. Had a contractor say I had never marked this sight with 15 office bldgs. Had over 500 pics to prove it was. I'm as bad as golden. I take a pics as fast as my finger can press the button.

[Goldenboy]

Here's another one. Had a contractor say I had never marked this sight with 15 office bldgs. Had over 500 pics to prove it was. I'm as bad as golden. I take a pics as fast as my finger can press the button.

The thing I love most is SM&P's new photo management system. I get called back to a "not marked" ticket and the contractors screaming. I just tell him to hold one second, go to my truck and pull up the original pictures, and shove it down the contractors throat.:greenapple:

[underground quester]

The thing I love most is SM&P's new photo management system. I get called back to a "not marked" ticket and the contractors screaming. I just tell him to hold one second, go to my truck and pull up the original pictures, and shove it down the contractors throat.:greenapple:

Golden:

Do you time and date stamp your pictures to add further evidence to when the photos were actually taken?

[Goldenboy]

Yes we turn on the date stamp on our cameras. If you look in my album you'll see in the lower left of the picture it has the date stamp.

Click here for my album (http://www.thecablevine.com/forum/album.php?albumid=1)

[LadyLeatherneck]

I think someone should do the figures on how much time is actually spent at each locate doing drawings and multiply that by how many drawings are done a year by one locator and multiply that by how many locators "draw" for a specific office and multiply that by # of offices owned by that utility. I bet it's more than we make in a year!

Instead of being called locators, we need a job title that involves artists/engineers! We'd make more $. Put that in the suggestion box.

[TBONE]

Yeah what she said :rules: