Cheater Clips

[TBONE]

What are some of the different ways you have built a cheater clip the main two I have built is to take a RD lead and screw a 1/4'' zip screw through the possitive lead the other is to take a small "C" clamp and run it on a bench grinder filing it to a point (Idea spawned from our famous clip himself) what have any of you came up with cause our famous just skin it practice will eventualy bite us in the but :scold:

[Goldenboy]

I have always considered a cheater clip a very short lead with clips on both ends. Used to jump wires in a test stands,unbond cables in a ped and jump them together, and ground out a wired gas service to bleed through.

I guess everyone has different names for everything. So how many times have you skinned a fiber just to find out it's sheathless?:yahoo:

[TBONE]

I have always considered a cheater clip a very short lead with clips on both ends. Used to jump wires in a test stands,unbond cables in a ped and jump them together, and ground out a wired gas service to bleed through.

I guess everyone has different names for everything. So how many times have you skinned a fiber just to find out it's sheathless?:yahoo:


More times than I need tell :scold: we have very many of these around here we are finding sorry non locating engineers that come up with this stuff :bang:

[USIC1]

Well I wish someone would come up with a way to find the zip-strip/tracer wire so people arent almost cutting the whole fiber in two getting to it to direct connect...

GEEZZ!!!

I seen one the other day I couldnt understand how the knife didnt get any of the fibers...

If you moved the fiber more than a couple inches it may break the fibers inside...

And what happens when harry homeowner bumps it with the lawn mower and they research who had the last ticket there???

GEEEZZZ!!!

Busted!!!

Whether you did or didnt take the knife to it...

[TBONE]

Your right I seen some that I skinned years ago that are soo rusted and corroded I had to ..uhh uhh give it a fresh skin :escape: :cool2:

[yahoo]

i don't know any short cuts.....ring clamp is my answer...... not my final answer though....:cool2:

[TBONE]

Come on skin it. It feels so good to cut into a fiber just deep enough not to cut it :ylsuper:

[underground quester]

Have seen those really fine utility knife blades used slowly and gently poke through the skin and touch the sheath. Then hook your aligator clip onto the blade. That way there is no hole afterwards to let in moisture/allow rust.
Any time I find a skinned fiber line I usually tape it up with that black electrical tape, that way, it does not rust AND it is not so noticeable.
Course, if there is no sheath, you are taking a chance but no more than a careless skin.

Also, on P.E. gas service, if I have several in a row to locate, I use one of those metal pin flags, cut the flag off and bend the tip over 180 degrees to form a loop. Then slip the tracer wire into the loop and push the wire into the ground. This causes the current to run up the service and ground itself. Works well EXCEPT in dry ground then you are hooped. We call it a jumper wire.
It is quicker than moving your box to each gas service.

[UULC]

I found some really big set of bed of nails that will fit on on a catv 500 cable.

[USIC1]

Its sad the facility owners dont install convenient direct connect access areas and/or note them on the prints for us....


All the big stink,huffin and puffin, after a high profile damage occurs but did they make an effort to create a safer and more accurate procedure for us by creating greater access to isolate there facilities...

NOT!!!!

Especially now on new installs where everyone has made our job so important these days...


Thats the real shame...

[yahoo]

it seems no matter how we hook to a fiber there's goingto be bleed off.......exp. does matter at that time......

[sprayandpray]

What are some of the different ways you have built a cheater clip the main two I have built is to take a RD lead and screw a 1/4'' zip screw through the possitive lead the other is to take a small "C" clamp and run it on a bench grinder filing it to a point (Idea spawned from our famous clip himself) what have any of you came up with cause our famous just skin it practice will eventualy bite us in the but :scold:


I have used the C clamp for several years now -has worked fine nearly every time.

[underground quester]

I have used the C clamp for several years now -has worked fine nearly every time.

I am going to try this, sounds cool. I bought a couple of tiny c-clamps at the dollar store today to try it.

(P.S. how come they call it the dollar store when I paid a buck and a half? What ever happened to truth in advertising?):tease:

[sprayandpray]

I am going to try this, sounds cool. I bought a couple of tiny c-clamps at the dollar store today to try it.

(P.S. how come they call it the dollar store when I paid a buck and a half? What ever happened to truth in advertising?):tease:


I think it now means it costs at least a dollar. I also have a 4" C clamp that I use sometimes on larger cables in a Handhole without a splice case or at a pole riser because I hate coupling stuff.

[UULC]

I think it now means it costs at least a dollar. I also have a 4" C clamp that I use sometimes on larger cables in a Handhole without a splice case or at a pole riser because I hate coupling stuff.

Something else I have used on risers is a vise grip welding clamp. I have one that will go aroung a 6" riser. It has 12" jaws.

[TBONE]

Yeah the c clamps seem to work the best just twist till you hear the tone change and run it then there is no big nasty skin spot on th cable :thumbsup2:

[underground quester]

What are some of the different ways you have built a cheater clip the main two I have built is to take a RD lead and screw a 1/4'' zip screw through the possitive lead the other is to take a small "C" clamp and run it on a bench grinder filing it to a point (Idea spawned from our famous clip himself) what have any of you came up with cause our famous just skin it practice will eventualy bite us in the but :scold:

Hey there TBONE/Divine Rod:

Took the idea of the C-clamp and made up a cheater clip. Tried it out the other day on a new telephone line in an area I work. Man, got a kick ass signal. Was really pleased! Have to be careful not to put it in too far though so took it easy turning the handle. Also, really liked the idea of a tiny pinhole in the casing. Taped it up really quickly.

ThanX for that great tip.

I now have a new tool in my arsenal!!:thumbsup2:

[USIC1]

Your Welcome...

:p

[Goldenboy]

Someone put a pic on the modification thread. I need pictures.

Do you somehow pry off the little round flat swivel part and then sharpen the ball part on the end of the screw part? I'm betting no one understood what I just said so it would be easier with a picture.

[beyond help]

Come on skin it. It feels so good to cut into a fiber just deep enough not to cut it :ylsuper:
We had a locator skin a fiber about a year ago. He cut thru about 75 of 96 strands in that fiber. Biotch of it is that there was a tracer wire just a few inches below it.

[underground quester]

Someone put a pic on the modification thread. I need pictures.

Do you somehow pry off the little round flat swivel part and then sharpen the ball part on the end of the screw part? I'm betting no one understood what I just said so it would be easier with a picture.


I just let the grinder take care of that. Then just held the c part in one hand and turned the handle back and forth the get it nice and round (and sharp).

I will take a picture and try to post it but I am "sofa king wee tod did" when it comes to those things (transferring pictures).

[underground quester]

Someone put a pic on the modification thread. I need pictures.

Do you somehow pry off the little round flat swivel part and then sharpen the ball part on the end of the screw part? I'm betting no one understood what I just said so it would be easier with a picture.


Hey Goldenboy:

Finally got her to work. Posted a picture of the clamp I made on the modifications page. Copy here too for info.

17

[sprayandpray]

I wrapped mine with electrical tape so if it contacts the groung or any metal it won't cause the signal to ground at thru the clamp. Do you think the utility companies would freak-out:yikes:if they saw us putting the squeeze on a F/O line?

[sprayandpray]

Excuse the errors in the above post. This is what happens when you try to post b/4 the 1st cup of coffee:breakcomp:

[underground quester]

I wrapped mine with electrical tape so if it contacts the groung or any metal it won't cause the signal to ground at thru the clamp.

Interesting point. I never thought of that. I will give it a go. Though, most of the lines I am clamping are pretty big and would not tend to fall over...I HOPE!



Do you think the utility companies would freak-out:yikes:if they saw us putting the squeeze on a F/O line?

I would suspect they might. However, It certainly is better than skinning the line. I really like the tiny little hole as it is easy to tape over. Plus, the next time I visit it is a pretty simple process to unwrap and re-connect.

[Goldenboy]

I still never understand why these idiots don't give us hook up points. That just like the U-guards for Time Warner. Alot of the U-guards have little doors to open and couple the CATV line. The stupid contractor in my area installs half the U-guards upside down so the little door is halfway up the pole. I just rip and tear on the U-guard till I can get to the TV line to couple it. :yahoo:

[underground quester]

I still never understand why these idiots don't give us hook up points. That just like the U-guards for Time Warner. Alot of the U-guards have little doors to open and couple the CATV line. The stupid contractor in my area installs half the U-guards upside down so the little door is halfway up the pole. I just rip and tear on the U-guard till I can get to the TV line to couple it. :yahoo:

Golden:

Have never heard of a "U-Guard" We probably just call it something else. Any chance you could post a photo of it when time permits?

[stormgrey]

You know, U guard, its a metal piece in the shape of a U that covers the riser on a pole!!

[underground quester]

You know, U guard, its a metal piece in the shape of a U that covers the riser on a pole!!

There are some things we live to regret. This was one of them. I had figured it out a day or two after my post but by then, my stupidity was outta the bag! And you had to go air my dirty laundry! Thanks a lot, EH! :o
(Just havin fun bustin your chops)

Hey, I'm not above grovelling for forgiveness!!

Another one of those damn senior moments I think!

Have to say I forgot my own motto "Think twice, ask once"

[underground quester]

On locates at homes or multiple family dwellings where I have to locate several PE gas services with tracer wires I take a pin flag and cut the flag portion off.
I then bend the top over to form a tight loop and slip the tracer wire through the loop. Then stick the wire into the ground. Of course, the soil must have some moisture content for this to work. I find this faster and less hassle than moving my transmitter to each service.

We call this a "JUMPER WIRE". It works because electricity likes to run to ground as quickly as possible, so it accomplishes that by running up your service wire, which then makes it traceable.


39

[sprayandpray]

Maybe I am missing something - where do you connect your leads? It seems if you connect your hot lead to the tracer wire you will immediately ground it out -I'm confused.

[underground quester]

Maybe I am missing something - where do you connect your leads? It seems if you connect your hot lead to the tracer wire you will immediately ground it out -I'm confused.



Spray:
Start out locating all the power/telephone services and get them out of the way first so I know where they are. Hook up to each one power/telephone service with the transmitter (We do 6 way locates).

Then I connect to the gas. That way I know if I jump over to another service.

If I am doing a series of houses (today I did 8 side by side houses-we call them duplexes). I hooked up at the gas service on the first house lets say 9404 Spray Way in the usual manner, turn the machine on. Walk down doing the mains, walk back attaching the jumper wire to each tracer wire at the gas meter and locate that service, then move it to the next house and do the same until I am back at the original address.

Remember two things:

1) Make a loop at the end of the jumper wire and on the tracer wire. The loop on the jumper should allow for a slight friction fit so the signal can run up the service line. Then push it into the ground as far as it will go. A little slow at first but your speed will pick up quickly and you will see it is faster than moving the transmitter each time.

2) This does NOT always work, depends on amount of moisture in the ground. If it is dry, it will not conduct a signal. Same as hooking up the usual way if the earth is really dry, hard to complete the circuit for the signal. Could carry a small bit of water with you to pour on earth at the jumper connection or, you could.........oh, never mind.

If it does not work, then I just go get the transmitter and do it the usual way.This works about 90-95% of the time though.


Note: I do not know of anyone on this site who has less than 3 years experience. I do NOT share this with nubees as it has potential to lead to problems in inexperienced hands.

This jumper wire idea was shown to me by a 25 year locator veteran.

Play with it a bit and crosscheck with your machine to see if you are on the mark. I played a bit before I trusted that it worked.

I guess I did take a lot for granted when I assumed everyone would know how the hookup would go. Sorry bout that, will keep that in mind for another post I want to do if I can get the picture to upload.

[underground quester]

Locating STEEL gas mains using the breather tube:

At highway crossings usually in rural areas you will occasionally see "breather tubes" along with a gas warning sign. These breather tubes are usually attached to a steel sleeve underneath the roadbed.

1) Scrape off a patch of rust to bare metal.
2) Attach your Red lead to the bare metal.
3) Stretch out your leads as far as possible and place your ground rod in the
ground, 90 degrees to the suspected run of the line.
4) Turn your machine on to a medium or high setting. Can use high or low
frequency. I usually use a low frequency if going a good distance.

5) Walk out 100 feet or so and sweep for the line & start locating.


Why it works: You are DIRECT CONNECTED to the breather tube which is welded to the sleeve. This is sending a current down the tube and onto the sleeve. It of course then sets up a magnetic field. This magnetic field is then induced onto the steel gas main and carried along the main.

The breather tube in this photo has TWO parallel HP lines lines in the same SLEEVE. Therefore, I can walk back and forth along the lines and locate both at the same time. These lines are of course in a rural area.

After about a mile I have to start adjusting my gain. Of course, you MUST be careful anytime you adjust gain that other utilities are not in the area.

Occasionally, this does not work. Could be that the sleeve is not conductive, or the connection is too corroded, or, that I am just not holding my tongue the right way, not sure why in some cases.




ATTACH]40[/ATTACH]

Note the positive lead connected to the tip of the breather tube after filing a spot on the breather tube to bare metal.

[UULC]

[QUOTE=underground quester;3144]Spray:

2) This does NOT always work, depends on amount of moisture in the ground. If it is dry, it will not conduct a signal. Same as hooking up the usual way if the earth is really dry, hard to complete the circuit for the signal. Could carry a small bit of water with you to pour on earth at the jumper connection or, you could.........oh, never mind.


Something else you can do is use Dawn Dish Soap with your water. Dawn works as a soaking agent. I learnd this when I was a volunteer firefighter. We had hay rolls that were on fire and went to a store and got every Dawn soap on the shelf and put it into our tank. I wish I had pictures of this. Our engine was covered in suds. But it does work.

Just a few drops in a bottle and soak the ground around your ground.



:cool2: :woot: :jumpinsmile:

[sprayandpray]

Got it now - thanks for the clarification.

[2RUDE]

On locates at homes or multiple family dwellings where I have to locate several PE gas services with tracer wires I take a pin flag and cut the flag portion off.
I then bend the top over to form a tight loop and slip the tracer wire through the loop. Then stick the wire into the ground. Of course, the soil must have some moisture content for this to work. I find this faster and less hassle than moving my transmitter to each service.

We call this a "JUMPER WIRE". It works because electricity likes to run to ground as quickly as possible, so it accomplishes that by running up your service wire, which then makes it traceable.


39



I've heard rumors about gas companies that actually tie their service line tracers into the main line tracers, which would make this a great trick. However, I have yet to encounter more than an occassional fluke, that a tracer is tied into the main with the gas co. I locate for. Another thing they're famous for is just twisting the unstripped tracers together at the service tap, or where they run out of wire and have to make a splice. Like my signals actually going to jump through two layers of insulation...... Thank God for the Pipehorn.

[underground quester]

Found ANOTHER use for Frosty Peters VICE GRIPS.

Had a power transformer today that I could not get much of a signal on. Attached the vice grips and gave them a few twists to get down to bare metal, then attached my positive lead directly onto the vice grips. Got at 700 signal on my 9860 and had to take it almost a mile. Signal held out fine.

ThanX again Frosty for the great idea!!!

45

[frostypeters]

No problem UG. I'm glad it's workin for you. It made my job easier for a long time. Pay it forward my friend...

[Lucky219]

I use to locate PNG here in NC. Loved locating their plant all the tracer wires were hooked together. If it wasn't cut I could direct connect my pipehorn and run whole blocks both sides of the road all over it was great. Of course contractors would cut the tracer and not tell the gas company. If they would call PNG they would come and fix it and thank the contractor for calling them and not charge any one for not marking it or cutting it. Those were the good old days, wish I was in a PNG area.

[gypsygirl]

I found some really big set of bed of nails that will fit on on a catv 500 cable.
Where??? ... Those things are hard to find!!

[yahoo]

Where??? ... Those things are hard to find!!

when you get word please pass it on my way.....thanks gypsy!!!!:ecomcity:

[underground quester]

A while back, FROSTY posted the idea of a pair of vice grips to improve your signal on gas risers at a house.

I thought the idea was pretty good and got to playing around with it and have used it for tons of different things. Some examples:

*Gas test points to jump the two leads
*Gas risers.
*On tracer wires on PE service to improve the signal strength (only when I
was using a home owner to locate the main for long distances).
*On the "breather tubes" (metal candy cane looking things at road crossings). See photo
elsewhere on this thread.

*On power/street light box combos with the big ass bolts securing the street
light in place (see photo elsewhere in this thread)
*On a power meter attached to a house when I could not get my alligator
clip to stay on
*On transformers to carry the signal further (see photo elsewhere in this
thread.

*On telephone ground wires to get a stronger signal that carried further.

Being an "analyzer" I also kept asking myself why this idea works so well AND conducts a better signal and "I" believe carries it farther. After weeks of thought, I believe I have an answer.

When you attach the vice grips and get down to bare metal, you have a larger surface transmitting the signal. Okay, if that's true, then you still only have the alligator clip points making contact correct?

Well yes, BUT, in most cases you only have some of the points on the alligator clips making contact. Using the vice grips and clipping on to them you then make contact on all points on either side of the clips PLUS makes contact at the crutch point of the alligator clip. So, in my opinion, you are making contact with a much greater surface area than by just using the clips themselves.

On any hook up, you can improve your connection or your ground to improve your signal. This idea improves the connection point.

The other day I was hooking up to a riser at a farm house to locate a main about 1/3 of a mile away. The gas inspector who watched me hook up using the vice grips asked why I was using the vice grips instead of direct connecting. I explained "my" thinking on this to him and he was impressed.

So, FROSTY, ThanX for a GREAT cheater clip idea.

I use it a ton (certainly, every day and continue to find more and more uses for it!!) .:) :applause: :applause:

[Oldschoollocator]

I cant believe what I am reading not so much the jumper/cheater clips but are all of you out of your Damm minds cutting the sheath on fiber? as a former Contract locator for byers/utilquest and a SUE firm then a construction Supervisor/manager for a LARGE CABLE provider, and then moved back into SUE. I HAVE TO SAY YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR MINDS.
I guess all of you know the fragileness of fiber and under stand it wont take the abuse as coax will. you will never find a fiber where you can attach to a ground on the fiber it will be encased in the splice chamber there fore you cant use it for locate purposes. want to know why????
lighting it is an isolated sytemit would have to take a direct hit to cause damage unlike a grounded system at each pole or other pole for the coax portion of the cable system lighting hits the pole and goes to ground but the system just shorted out right... Ok Fiber didn't even know the was a problem no metallic open value its encased signal was not interrupted, that is the reason and logic behind it.
so for each nick or cut you place in the jacket you expose the armor to the elements!!!!!
Comscope solution was to create a non armor jacked cable unlocatable period I don't care what you use. it is now incumbent on the cable/ fiber company to place TRACE WIRE in the conduit with the Fiber for locate purposes. as the construction super I did and it was mandatory , I understand some companies don't your options at this point are in my mind simple call you cable rep tell them you need a trace wire placed and the complete the ticket. you will find most if not all cable companies will work with you on this due to the importance of it.
PLEASE DONT UNDER ESTIMATE THE DURABILITY OF FIBER you can and will break it or cut it.
PLease STOP cutting the sheaths on fiber
I have had to trace simular problems down before and it is time and labor intensive to find 2 broken fiber inside a 288 count fiber and then do a mid entry to fix them. and all that was was a squil chwed the line .... not much diffeent then cutting the sheath or poking a hole in it to contact the jacket!!!!
I could go on!!!!!
there are better ways !!!!!!!

Question 1 why cut the sheath if it is armor jacketed cable?
resolution 1 use a circle clamp it will locate the cable.
resolution 2 Pipe horn inductive no problem
congested areas separate everything else out first.

[sprayandpray]

That's why I use the C clamp small hole that normally self-seals and easy to control depth of penetration. The engineers and construction people know, or should know, anything put underground will need to be located. They should allow for that.

[Goldenboy]

Question 1 why cut the sheath if it is armor jacketed cable?

In a perfect world the coupler would work on all jacketed fibers. The problem is that alot of these fibers go for miles and miles and have very few splices in them and the splices they do have are not grounded. With this in mind when coupling it seems like if there is no grounds except at the very end it is hard to run a tone for 3-4 thousand feet. When direct connected in a low frequency you can run a signal for miles.

Not that I've ever pierced a fiber.

[yahoo]

ok i'm looking for one of those special things that hooks to the fiber that is homemade.....anyone have one that hooks to a subsite 950 let me know.....

[TBONE]

ok i'm looking for one of those special things that hooks to the fiber that is homemade.....anyone have one that hooks to a subsite 950 let me know.....

What are you exactly looking for with my tool shed anything is possible :Todd:

[USIC1]

What are you exactly looking for with my tool shed anything is possible :Todd:


Rachel!?!?!!


:not_ripe:

[sprayandpray]

What are you exactly looking for with my tool shed anything is possible :Todd:

My wife has told me my 'tool shed' is too large and is putting me on a diet!:tease:

[yahoo]

i sent a pm to you tbone........thanks

[phoenix827]

So does anyone have a pic of a modified c clamp? I got the idea, would like to see it that's all.

[ifinditunderground]

Phoenix, scroll thru the first couple of pages of this thread, there is a posted photgraph.

[phoenix827]

DOH! Guess I missed it.:icon_redface::o:bang::smash:

ok, I found it. At least I am a bit better locating lines then I am with pics! lol
http://www.thecablevine.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=17&thumb=1&d=1212725750

[Dave72]

Im gonna fab up one of those C-clamps too..

How about having a small tube of black RTV sealant and just put a wee dab on the hole, then wipe it with your finger/towel.. the rtv will be in the (small but still) hole ? RTV should last a while if you put it in a ziplock or etc ?

[underground quester]

So does anyone have a pic of a modified c clamp? I got the idea, would like to see it that's all.

See my picture in message number 22 on this thread. Is that what you are looking for?

[TBONE]

Rachel!?!?!!


:not_ripe:


OHHH WTF EVER in your dreams pal!!!!! :scold: