What's it going to be? Veterans get OT or staffed correctly with new hires?

[tylerd75]

I read with interest the conflicting opinions of people on the board. On one hand we have the people complain that they are not staffed correctly, need more new people hired. However i read a couple posts later that some technicians dislike it when companies supposedly "overstaff" as they feel they cannot get their overtime.

I wanted to open a post that says, what do you think?

[Mr Blunderbuss]

OT is all well and fine as long as it doesn't get oppressive. But there is a fine line between over-staffed and under-staffed; too many people and there are a lot of lay-offs when the tickets start running dry. Too few and you have locators working 12+ hours a day and weekends.

[tylerd75]

So what would you prefer? it is understood that there is a fine balance to getting this business staffed correctly, i hear two conflicting sides on this site, I would like to gauge the opinion of all that read and are active commentators on this. The people who post here are representing the locators who put paint down day in and out.

[PowerSweep]

I think staffing so that OT does not go beyond 50 hours a week should be the goal.

[Gryphon]

I believe that given the nature of the work we do an 8 hour day should be the goal. I mean would you want your brain, or heart surgeon cutting you open after he had just worked 70 hours. I know the analogy might be a stretch, but lets face it, one mistake due to being over worked has the potential to cause serious injury or death, or at the very least a costly damage. There will allways be individuals the either want or need the ot, but 70, or 80 hours a week, c'mon that is just beating people into the ground. Here is one other quick point. The locators working directly for the utilities work 8 ten hour days, and are responsible for just one utility. Most contract locators are responsible for multiple utilities. That is a lot of stress to those of you managerial types that know nothing about what is required to perform this job.

[TBONE]

It will be work your vets to death and swear we have enough people to staff for the summer and say we will be over staffed if we hire another person :ecomcity:

[USIC1]

I believe anything over 8 ought to be paid as OT time and a half...

And no one should lose there OT hours because there sent home early on account of bad weather or work not being available later in the week...

If your scheduled work time is an 8 hour day and suddenly there are these mandatory/necessary hours to be worked there should be a premium included...


I guess Im a little off topic but thought Id kick this in also...

It restricts your ability to schedule a second job for those that need to make additional money so there should be a premium regardless of not getting your 40 actual worked hours...

Its just unfair and wrong to take advantage of this...To some extent this job is requiring all your time to be available unlike other industrys thus its only fair...

Well anyway thats all...

:escape:

[TBONE]

I believe anything over 8 ought to be paid as OT time and a half...

And no one should lose there OT hours because there sent home early on account of bad weather or work not being available later in the week...

If your scheduled work time is an 8 hour day and suddenly there are these mandatory/necessary hours to be worked there should be a premium included...


I guess Im a little off topic but thought Id kick this in also...

It restricts your ability to schedule a second job for those that need to make additional money so there should be a premium regardless of not getting your 40 actual worked hours...

Its just unfair and wrong to take advantage of this...To some extent this job is requiring all your time to be available unlike other industrys thus its only fair...

Well anyway thats all...

:escape:




But dont you know thats how they get you ever notice if you get off early or get sent home they are all about getting you to work the weekend ...less pay they have to fork out gotta read the fine print :rules:

[USIC1]

Wonder what spray n pray thinks!?!??!?!?!?


You know there bending him over somewhere on this type of issue...


:rules::cry::rules::cry:

:complain:


:complain:

[TBONE]

Where is Troy when you need him...huh...lol :escape:

[yahoo]

I read with interest the conflicting opinions of people on the board. On one hand we have the people complain that they are not staffed correctly, need more new people hired. However i read a couple posts later that some technicians dislike it when companies supposedly "overstaff" as they feel they cannot get their overtime.

I wanted to open a post that says, what do you think?


staffed correctly with new hires.....................................this concept does not exist that is my opinion....:scold:

[yahoo]

my choice is ot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TBONE]

I agree OT is what will happen at this point cause even if they hire it is too late in the season right now they wont be worth a crap till at least winter and will only be pumping out 8-10 tickets a day for a while anyway and yep we will have to pick up thier slack so lets just crank up the coffe pots ond soak up the ot :ecomcity:

[underground quester]

I like some others above believe there needs to be proper scheduling that would see us get around 50 - 55 hours per week in the summer months. And I agree anything over 40 hours per week should be at time and a half at least.

I have had the odd week where I worked 60 hours but those are few and far between.

When companies cannot or will not staff to appropriate levels, they bring on a whole host of issues...not the least of which is grumpy or p/o employees who come to believe they do not have a life. And, because they are driven so hard by the employer may believe they are not appreciated. Not a great combination for positive working relations.

The issue is also one of: do the companies have the right people, in the right jobs, doing the right things and providing all the correct resources, to allow us to effectively do our jobs. Many of us already know the answer to that question. And it sad because so many of the problems are so easily fixed if only the will and desire were there by the company!

[UULC]

I really think anything over 50 hrs is too much. It can burn your folks out quickly.

[sprayandpray]

Wonder what spray n pray thinks!?!??!?!?!?


You know there bending him over somewhere on this type of issue...


:rules::cry::rules::cry:

:complain:


:complain:

Hell, I appreciate the concern but 'Ol Spray is taking it to them this year - nearly $6500 in ot so far. I will "Make my own bonus" from now on:ylsuper:

[Goldenboy]

I like to average around 60 hours a week in the summer. This year has been about 70 a week so far. That is a little too much for me. I like the checks but I'm tired. It just seems like every year we lose just a couple experienced guys but to make up for 2 experienced guys lost you need 5 or 6 trainees.

Every year when they hire all the trainees in the spring I think that there's going to be too many people and I won't get any overtime and every year I get more and more overtime.

Well I guess this year I just gotta think about the http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/predrunner/cablevine/money.gif.

[underground quester]

I really think anything over 50 hrs is too much. It can burn your folks out quickly.

A steady diet of it absolutely can burn people out. We get pretty busy around May 1 to October 31, then in the winter we get about 25-30 hrs per week. So, when I know there is an end in sight I can go for some time.

But, some of the younger guys here, take every hour and some even post notes "will take you o/t if you don't want it. So, I take what I am comfortable with and let them go at it.

[underground quester]

I like to average around 60 hours a week in the summer. This year has been about 70 a week so far. That is a little too much for me. I like the checks but I'm tired. It just seems like every year we lose just a couple experienced guys but to make up for 2 experienced guys lost you need 5 or 6 trainees.

Every year when they hire all the trainees in the spring I think that there's going to be too many people and I won't get any overtime and every year I get more and more overtime.

Well I guess this year I just gotta think about the http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/predrunner/cablevine/money.gif.


Goldenboy: A scary truth. Long distance truckers work 60-70 hours a week 50weeks per year. And some fudge their logs so they can work more. Now remember, these guys are behind the wheel driving throughout north america!

[UULC]

That is scary

[big boots mcghee]

Hell, I appreciate the concern but 'Ol Spray is taking it to them this year - nearly $6500 in ot so far. I will "Make my own bonus" from now on:ylsuper:

I'm right there with ya, up over $7000 just in ot so far, and that's without the 70+ hours of ot coming next check. It's sick, I know, but I do it because it's there for the taking and because I've got the drive right now to nab some big checks. The bonus program is garbage and I still need to eat and pay bills, so as long as I'm healthy and willing (and allowed) I'm gonna go grab that money. Heck, I'm putting in nothing compared to some guys who are hitting 90-95 hours a week - all by choice - but damn I'd like to have their paychecks. If it ever became the norm to put in sick hours I'd have to look elswhere. But for now, the choice is mine and I choose OT!

[frostypeters]

Ok, here is the problem. Everyone here who talks about liking and/or wanting the OT is coming from a purely financial position.

more OT = more $$$$

But, from a safety/quality standpoint (and also being realistic) a 45-48 work week through "peak season" should be the goal. The problem with that is most guys can't live without the big OT in the summer. Why? Because across the board we don't get paid enough in base salary.

Now before the "union" idiots start piling on, that's not where I am going. The reason contract locating exists is because old & slow union locators priced themselves out of a job in the first place. For that reason, we as an industry will never make $30hr across the board, but in order for everyone to work 45-48 hrs a week & get paid a decent wage, corporate profitablility must not be the single motivating factor.

Now, your saying "but Frosty, how could such a thing ever happen?" Well, it's not an easy answer otherwise we'd be there already, but for one the utilities need to realize they they need to pay for a professional service ( which most of us on this forum can provide). Second our companies must not pocket that money and constantly look for unrealistic profit goal and/or the industry as a whole goes towards non-profit organizations.

It is an interesting concept and I encourage anyone who has worked at ARKUPS to chime in. Most of our gripes (low pay, staffing, equipment, vehicles) are directly related to our companies trying to squeeze blood out of a rock. Without the worry of profitability, all you have to do is cover expenses. Think about when last year SM&P was bitching about "ONLY" making an $8million profit. If they were a non-profit company, that $8million would have gone back into wages, more people, better equipment etc.

...hmm ok, I caught myself. I am getting off my soapbox now, but that's my long winded answer basically saying if we were paid better, we wouldn't "want" all the OT.:ecomcity::ecomcity:

[yahoo]

Ok, here is the problem. Everyone here who talks about liking and/or wanting the OT is coming from a purely financial position.

more OT = more $$$$

But, from a safety/quality standpoint (and also being realistic) a 45-48 work week through "peak season" should be the goal. The problem with that is most guys can't live without the big OT in the summer. Why? Because across the board we don't get paid enough in base salary.

Now before the "union" idiots start piling on, that's not where I am going. The reason contract locating exists is because old & slow union locators priced themselves out of a job in the first place. For that reason, we as an industry will never make $30hr across the board, but in order for everyone to work 45-48 hrs a week & get paid a decent wage, corporate profitablility must not be the single motivating factor.

Now, your saying "but Frosty, how could such a thing ever happen?" Well, it's not an easy answer otherwise we'd be there already, but for one the utilities need to realize they they need to pay for a professional service ( which most of us on this forum can provide). Second our companies must not pocket that money and constantly look for unrealistic profit goal and/or the industry as a whole goes towards non-profit organizations.

It is an interesting concept and I encourage anyone who has worked at ARKUPS to chime in. Most of our gripes (low pay, staffing, equipment, vehicles) are directly related to our companies trying to squeeze blood out of a rock. Without the worry of profitability, all you have to do is cover expenses. Think about when last year SM&P was bitching about "ONLY" making an $8million profit. If they were a non-profit company, that $8million would have gone back into wages, more people, better equipment etc.

...hmm ok, I caught myself. I am getting off my soapbox now, but that's my long winded answer basically saying if we were paid better, we wouldn't "want" all the OT.:ecomcity::ecomcity:



frosty good post dude..............but after reading that .....makes me want to work some more ot.....hahhahaha....totally agree with you ..wish they would pay more but we both know that is not going to happen...so in an unsafe manner we cont. to work ot......:cool2:

[Locatingart]

I love to ask how many people hear have Family and how there fit in all this. Myself I have a wife and three kids I like to be paid over time but I love my Family. If I could get a Healthy Balance of great pay and Normal hours with overtime when I am on-call. would be great.:yahoo:

[Locatingart]

oops I ment here not hear

[2RUDE]

.

[RoadMap]

If they are going to offer OT, I am going to take it. We are not working enough in their eyes. Or some of the guys are not working the same as the rest of their team. Some of us work 70 and some work 50. Instead of evening it out they just tell us to work more.:complain:

[2RUDE]

.

[beyond help]

I don't need all the ot. 58 hours / week would be just fine w/ me. 10hrs during the week and 8hrs on sat would be just grand with me:clapping:

[dragondata5]

I will agree that 50-60 hrs is enough. Finding a balance between OT and staffing is hard enough. Just try working together and the weekends will usually be freed up

[sprayandpray]

Here's a good one - One of our groups down here is short 3 locators -1 quit, 1 was fired and 1 transferred. For the last month they have had mandatory week-end work to keep up (along with volunteers from other groups). They are probably running 40-50% O.T. Now a hiring freeze is initiated. My question is: Is it more profitable to have fewer locators and large amounts of O.T. or to staff up properly and have very little O.T.? Maybe from a pure $$ standpoint the fewer employees offers a better profit margin, but how does a higher rate of turnover effect the bottom line? I am sure there are people a lot smarter than me making these decisions but something doesn't seem to add up at gut level. I am wondering if Robbie boy left us in bad shape?:confused:
Maybe in the next few weeks things will start to make sense, however I don't have a very good feeling about what's happening right now. It nearly feels like a co. that's about to go under, or do a drastic cut-back. Neither option will bode well for us peons.

[LadyLeatherneck]

After reading everyone's differing opinions on this subject it seems a no brainer to me that each office is different and should be handled individually (within certain corporate criteria, of course). Corporate should give enough freedom to the offices to be able to meet individual needs and wants within that office. People and circumstances are different and always have been. Be ethical, moral, and considerate in your decisions as a leader of men and women. Leaders need to learn how to be Good Leaders, and to be a good leader one needs to consider the needs and wants of their subordinants. I think if you have an office of locators that want a lot of overtime, be careful not to overstaff and put them and THEIR FAMILIES in a bind. If you have an office of those that don't necessarily need or want the ot, use that office to staff of needed. I also think if you have an employee that needs and wants ot, don't ignore him/her to hire someone else. REMEMBER there are real families involved with real needs - some want $ and some want time. There's a real difference between a person in charge and a good leader.:)

[LadyLeatherneck]

Another interesting point to consider in all this:

Be careful who you listen to as someone in charge. Look at the production numbers. You could have a locator griping about needing help when he's only doing 10 tickets a day. (I know of one). Always saying hire someone to help me. Personally I think this person needs to learn how to locate or move on. One locator who needed the ot volunteered to help him. Wasn't good enough. He wanted a person on a permanent basis to help him (found out later he was quitting early and going golfing during the day.) Management listened to him and hired a new person to help him which cut out the ot for the other locator.

Another locator complained constantly about too much work - while only doing 10-12 tickets a day - and driving through McDonalds with his wife in his vehicle at 3:00 in the afternoon.

There are those who do their job and management knows who they are. They rarely complain unless it has something to do with an injustice and they make production plus regularly. They aren't caught doing things against company policy and they go over and beyond the call of duty consistantly. Those are the ones you leave alone and let them do their job. The others are in the wrong line of work.:bump:

[beyond help]

Another interesting point to consider in all this:

Be careful who you listen to as someone in charge. Look at the production numbers. You could have a locator griping about needing help when he's only doing 10 tickets a day. (I know of one). Always saying hire someone to help me. Personally I think this person needs to learn how to locate or move on. One locator who needed the ot volunteered to help him. Wasn't good enough. He wanted a person on a permanent basis to help him (found out later he was quitting early and going golfing during the day.) Management listened to him and hired a new person to help him which cut out the ot for the other locator.

Another locator complained constantly about too much work - while only doing 10-12 tickets a day - and driving through McDonalds with his wife in his vehicle at 3:00 in the afternoon.

There are those who do their job and management knows who they are. They rarely complain unless it has something to do with an injustice and they make production plus regularly. They aren't caught doing things against company policy and they go over and beyond the call of duty consistantly. Those are the ones you leave alone and let them do their job. The others are in the wrong line of work.:bump:
What you may forget are the locators that only work on high profile, piece of crap, unbelieveably long @$$ tickets all day. I only see single lot tickets when I'm on call. Other than that it's help everyone else and run long @$$ tickets. Just because someone is not as "productive" doesn't mean they don't locate twice as much as you do. I'm not trying to burst anyones bubble, but don't beat the hell out of anyone that does put in a hard days work but doesn't get as many "tickets" done. Trust me, I bust my balls as much as the next guy, but I don't get the easier tickets.

[big boots mcghee]

What you may forget are the locators that only work on high profile, piece of crap, unbelieveably long @$$ tickets all day. I only see single lot tickets when I'm on call. Other than that it's help everyone else and run long @$$ tickets. Just because someone is not as "productive" doesn't mean they don't locate twice as much as you do. I'm not trying to burst anyones bubble, but don't beat the hell out of anyone that does put in a hard days work but doesn't get as many "tickets" done. Trust me, I bust my balls as much as the next guy, but I don't get the easier tickets.

Glad someone mentioned this point. We've got locators that can run 50 tickets a day, every day. We've also got locators that regularly run 10 tickets a day in what's considered a very high profile area. Is one better than the other? I don't think so, unless one has less damages than another. One guy might make the company a ton of money by being so productive while the other does the same by preventing major damages in a high profile area. They each make the company money in their own way, so in the end it usually evens out.

[FigNewton]

It would be nice for whatever company you work to hire 'seasonal' help (experienced that is) that knows how to locate and can handle going to different areas, so we don't need to put in 70 hours a week. Sure would be nice to see my boys every now and again. =(

[LadyLeatherneck]

I wasn't talking about high profile locators. That is a given. I was talking about those that are doing "single address" tickets. Sorry. I didn't mean to offend.

[gypsygirl]

There have been a LOT of good points & issues raised here. My two cents worth is this... There is a fine line between overstaffing & a slave labor. I think 60 hrs/week should be maximum on average. I agree that some people are driven by $$ others by time... so take each one and balance it out. Those who want more time should compromise and give a little extra time. (Only problem is that a lot of these people don't put out the work to start with .. ie.. start late, leave early... then say... I can't get my tickets done):bang:

If you have a minimum # of hours that must be worked by everyone each week, then it would eliminate the late/early scenario. Then after the minimum, if the work hasn't been completed... check for volunteers before making it manditory.

Generally there are quite a few out there willing to work extra. Granted there are some weeks that may be slower than others... then you see who would want to have a little extra time at home... (starting with the ones who have put out the extra work.. not the ones who already go home early)... and work out from there.

There are those of us who love this line of work and thrive on it... (can you say workaholics?)... :yahoo:but even these people run into burn out :yikes: and a little pat on the back and some consideration should be given to these people too. Don't assume that they ALWAYS want to work like dogs.:scold: Okay.. I think I am rambling now.:ecomcity:

[yahoo]

well said gypsy!!!

[yahoo]

again i have to go with ot ............staffed up will never happen.....my opinion:thumbsup2:

[LadyLeatherneck]

I agree yahoo! OT! Except when it gets to be too much. Tired locators have accidents. Don't want anyone hurt!